# Balancing Safety & BVLOS Flights The Regulatory Dilemma

- Event: NestGen ’22
- Published: March 3, 2022
- Length: 49:06
- Watch: https://nestgen.org/library/watch/zTfQisT5aOY/

> The transcript of a recorded NestGen session, for reading or for use with an AI tool. It comes from the video's
> captions; automatic captions can mishear names and terms.

## About this session

To conduct long-range drone flights without manual intervention, safety is paramount. Learn how flight regulations are progressing for BVLOS operations.

## Transcript

**[0:11]** [Music] hello and good day mates can you hear me on great welcome to one of the very first and most exciting sessions of nesgen 22. with a focus on regulatory landscape this session would give you a deeper understanding on how to conduct pilotless pvlos flights while keeping safety in mind BVLOS or beyond visual line of sight operations are still a distant dream for many due to the difficult wave or process that organizations need to go through the potential of drones for long range operations are still under utilized inspection of pipelines railway tracks highways and other similar assets that span thousands of kilometers are still yet to be normalized worry not to show you the way forward we have jackie the founder and ceo of hawaii or popularly called as the super women joining us today

**[1:12]** however uav is an internationally recognized drone consultancy and system management company jackie hannah team have been involved in various groundbreaking projects such as conducting flight operations for the alphabet's wing drone delivery program managing several first BVLOS flight approvals and implementing the first nsw shark surveillance flights she also implemented and oversaw the largest volunteer rollout of drone operations in australia and invented a life-saving uav shark alarm technology jackie knows flight regulations and procedures like nobody's business and can be an invaluable resource for anyone who wants to create a world-leading drone operation well well when she's she isn't creating something interesting her head is on the ground getting things moving and making sure her kids get to school on time what's more jackie is a board member at wii robotics double a us and safe skies australia

**[2:16]** she was also an nsw government business women of the year finalists optus business women of the year finalists and unmanned aerial system industry honoree thank you and good morning good afternoon good evening and for all the others what are you doing up in the middle of the night um firstly thank you flight based team for such creating such an amazing event on a topic I believe is going to be a huge important part of the industry over the next few years um I also was so amazed in those opening comments this morning there's so many people from around the world so I am doing this live um and I do have a really bad habit of speaking really fast and also with my accent sometimes I'm hard to understand but I will really try to speak quite slowly for this presentation otherwise send me a little message to slow down so I've been enjoy involved in the drone industry now for the past seven years when I first started it was all about proof of concepts trials and really seeing if the drone could actually be utilized

**[3:20]** to do the job that had been carried out in so many different ways previously we were hearing things like wow we didn't realize you could use a drone for that or well we no longer need to get expensive scaffolding to get the inspection imagery required or well this does really save time and has the potential for huge cost savings from there we saw many companies wanting to adapt drones into their workflows more permanently they started dipping their toes into pushing boundaries flying further or flying higher they began looking at organizational structures introducing compliance software developing their staff and also looking at adding additional sensors and use cases to add to their programs from there over the last year we're now starting to see those organizations have the defined use cases the experienced staff and are now ready to use drones in the organization and really see them explode and finally see those cost savings that we've been hearing about for many years

**[4:23]** drone in the box is an enabler of where organisation would like to see their drone programs go it finally enables things like you know autonomous drone programs flying multiple drones at once more efficiency and those cost savings we're also we are mostly seeing uh the first drone in the box adapters from the mining industrial agriculture and security industries and many more applications you'll hear from other nesting speakers over the course of the event next slide so what am I here to talk about today um I'm going to discuss the regulatory process and considerations required for bv loss operations and remote and flying remotely from remote operation center so let's start off with bb loss what is it so bb loss back a slide yep bb loss is where you can fly further than you can see I know some of the early keynote did explain that for many uh for many years the industry has been focused on

**[5:26]** visual line of sight where the pilot could be a few hundred meters from the drone utilizing radio frequency to control it many of the first bb lost flights were conducted with a visual observer that visual observer was able to clear any of that air or ground risk or risk that the drone may cause this was this is also called extended visual line of sight in many countries with true bv loss which we're going to speak about here today it's when the air and the ground risk will be mitigated by other means other than the pilot or the observer clearing that risk sora it's also a word up on my map um it's also thrown out there quite a lot when discussing bb lost waivers or approvals the sora or the specific operation risk assessment was created by jairus which is the joint association for rule making for uncrewed systems it has been actually adapted by over 62 countries worldwide and from my experience we do find that most regulatory authorities um do put their own spin on the sora but the sora is still the base we also find that many countries

**[6:33]** you might be watching and many of your countries may not utilize the sora we still find that those regulators use many of the same elements um and require from the operator when developing their safety case for bb loss operations so as well as bb loss we're also going to discuss remote operations remote operations bb loss will be a really crucial part of successful drone in the box solutions to grow at scale remote operations is where a pilot is located in an entirely different a location from the drone the pilot might be like it might be piloting one or more drone at a time and is connecting to the either the drone or the box by lte 5g or satellite also like many industries I do actually flick between calling it a drone a uas uncrude aircraft rpa however for this presentation they all mean the same things it's just I don't know why it just happens um as you can see the poll I know that it's out um so please uh go into the poll and

**[7:36]** let me know who's flying visual line of sight let me know who's flying bb loss and who's not flying drawings at all um next slide as for charlie mentioned I'm the founder and ceo of hover uav it was quite early on in a lot of our early trials that our team really fell in love with helping people move their drone programs forward there were so many amazing entrepreneurs inventors early adopters and we found the joy in helping them gain their complex operational approvals and making their products or programs a success we also found there was a lot of confusion when people were discussing bb loss we found people thinking it was going to be too expensive or unobtainable so one of our proudest achievements has been that of the bb loss hub which I'm sitting in tonight um the bb lost hub is a place where people can come and learn about how to create the complex operational approvals or have one developed for them it's a place for manufacturers to connect to end-use cases and people requiring their products to assist in running

**[8:38]** safe bv loss operations this could be from the drone the box the hardware all the software it's also people can educate themselves and learn everything from running an emergency response plan bb loss or how to manage compliance or just be a great chief remote pilot we often found that many organizations also needing to run a trial before full implementation so we created a remote operations center for drone operations the remote operations center is fully equipped with all the required connectivity and communication setup that is suitable for suitable for most bv loss operations next slide the bb loss hub has really allowed us to be in an important part of so many amazing projects from working with drone in the box providers such as percepto and our remote operations center to obtain one of the first bv loss remote operation approvals we have conducted flight operations and ground support for the last four years for wing aviation delivery in australia and uh sometimes in finland we were

**[9:43]** lucky to utilize our scorer and bb lost skills also to assist the australian regulator create five bb loss standard scenarios for industry as well as an easy to use applicant and regulatory inspector checklist we also have been able to connect client products to end-use cases and then obtain long-range bv loss flight approvals for medical drone delivery power line inspections and also coastal marine surveillance so as we move on to the considerations for bb loss and the nitty gritty unfortunately this presentation I'm not going to be able to solve everyone's problems from around the world or for issues for bv loss bb loss risk levels can be from a very low um which could be flying agriculture over fields or high risk for flying during delivery in the middle of a city um so most of my examples and things will go through today are from low to medium risk for a lot of the high risk jobs many of the regulators are still trying to lock in the best way to assess those

**[10:47]** applications they're also looking at what um what are the elements required and what are the elements required to be third-party assessed um we also believe the use cases we provided will be where a lot of people will fall for their first friend in the box um bb lost flights so go to the next slide um so baby loss considerations now I know not everyone likes talking about risk like like me so I will try to move through this fairly quickly but unfortunately I can't talk about the regulatory process without explaining a little bit about the risk so bear with me for the next two minutes and I promise it will get super exciting after that um as mentioned earlier we are you I'm probably more used to using the soraa methodology however even if your respective aviation authority does not it does use a similar pathway it uses a risk-based assessment or you know what some people call it a bowtie risk assessment and it's used to evaluate the risks related to a given operation

**[11:50]** the model usually considers all natures of the threats associated with a specific hazard the relevant design and the proposed operational mitigations for that specific operation what the soar methodology does and why it's been so widely adapted it then helps evaluate the risks systematically and determine the boundaries required for safe operation the method also allows the operator to then determine the acceptable risks and to validate that those levels are complied with for the proposed operation um it still is based from a bow tie diagram so a bow tie diagram visualizes the risks that you were dealing with in one understandable picture the diagram is shaped like a bow tie creating a clear differential between the proactive and reactive side of risk management the bow tie diagram provides you an overview of multiple plausible incident scenarios

**[12:50]** and then shows you what barriers you have to place to control those scenarios so barriers are also referred to as controls or safety measures or you know layers of protective to control an unwanted situation all that you know that top event barriers in the bow tie on both sides of the top event the barriers on the left side interpret the scenario so the threats do not occur and if they do not result in loss of control which is that top event barriers on the right side make sure the scenario does not escalate into actual impact the consequence and or they mitigate the actual impact there are different types of barriers promise I'll get through the risk really quickly which are mainly a combination of human behavior and or hardware and technology you know once the barriers are identified you have a basic understanding of how you're

**[13:50]** going to manage your risks you can build on this basic barrier structure further to deepen your understanding of where your strengths and where your weaknesses are barriers can be classified and assessed beside the barrier types to include for instance like you know the barrier effectiveness this lets you then assess how well your barrier will perform or is expected to perform based on the available data or you're relying on an expert judgment after that you can look at the activities you have specifically to implement to maintain those barriers this essentially means you know mapping your safety management system into onto the barriers in addition you can determine who is responsible for those barriers and assess the critical of the barrier in the context of other related information ultimately you're linking and visualizing all this information on the barrier and it gives you a holistic overview of the safety measures with relevant metadata in the

**[14:55]** context of your risk scenario so to build your risk assessment safety case one of the most important things we always discuss with our clients is really having a defined concept of operation you know what we need to provide the relevant technical operational system information um needed to assess the risks associated with the intended operation we usually run like quick workshops to clients to really confirm if their concept of operation is actually feasible within their respective countries a regulatory framework or their concept of operations need to be slightly amended what we would look for in that concept of operation we would look for operational characteristics so some of them may be you know the overflown area is it sparsely populated is it an urban or is it a controlled environment we look at the vertical or horizontal flight limits we look at the s-based classes is it controlled or uncontrolled we look at the c2 limitations like is there buildings or mountains that

**[15:57]** are going to stop the radio frequency or is there lte connectivity or maybe we should be using satellite communications we look at the weather limitation do we actually need to fly in rain or a hot climate and we also look at what human intervention or what autonomous drone flight is actually needed for that that job that you're going to be doing we'd also look at you as the operator we would look at is everyone trained and hold appropriate licensing we would look at the operator if they rely on any external services like you know lte is probably the most popular one like um or the internet services they would need to be able to demonstrate that that performance and the availability of that service is adequate for their operations that they're proposing as well the concept of operations should also include technical provisions such as flight software um some of the components which I'm going to really go through the flight software thing because we're going to learn a lot about that from from flat base

**[17:00]** throughout these presentations as well but some of the things we would be looking for that we need to ensure that we could do would be we need to be able to make sure we could find out the drone position the height altitude ground speed um air speed and tracking are all monitored we need to know the rpa position reference um and how it's going to avoid any you know high-risk areas or dwellings we'd need to know how that the is going to manage the drone height in reference to the terrain we need to look at the battery or whatever energy you are using to fly that and see how much it has left um we also need to you know the status of the critical functions like the radio frequency or you know the gnss like we need to know those um critical functions and they possibly could trigger an alert if the level is below the um the operator threshold as well so we're going to use a case study so we get a lot of phone calls during the week so this is sort of a

**[18:01]** popular one that um people want to implement for drone in the boxes quite early on so the use case is you know a utility company they're wanting to run 24 hours operations monitoring site security site hazards and inspecting assets they're wanting to use a commercial drone and a commercial box because of covert they've now restricted all their personnel um to being on site so they would like for the pilots to be located offside remotely the flights are going to go for 30 minutes and they're going to run on the hour they're using these off-the-shelf drones they're going to be using lithium polymer for our example as most of the most of this is for inspections um we're gonna have the flights operating within a hundred foot oh uh go back slide sorry you jumped on the head yeah just a long slide um so we're going to have them flying within 100 foot of that structure um vertically and it's going to be a fairly low level flight as well um the use case

**[19:05]** is going to be in sparsely populated however we're going to talk about this we're going to actually for this area it's utility site we're going to actually classify it um to the regulatory authority saying it's a controlled environment so even if it was near a more populated area around that we could probably get this one through as well um what the controlled area is um look it's a utility site so for this scenario it's going to be fenced um it's it's already restricting the general public from entering it has entry control it has security cameras um also for this use case the airspace is in class g airspace uncontrolled airspace the drones themselves are commercially off the shelf which is sort of what a lot of the products that you're going to hear about in the next few days are they have an optical camera and a thermal capabilities which will be great for the utility inspection the drones are fairly automated however they do still require some human intervention for the conops um and the main two options for the

**[20:09]** options for flying the drone for the c2 links which is command and control we're seeing is either that the pilot is connected to the base station via the lte and then then it is operating the drone by a radio frequency and the other option which is my preference um because it is easier to get through um is the drone might have dual sim cards or options and can be controlled directly from the remote pilot and also they have a secondary channel as a redundancy as well and the box they provoke um the box through provo have proposed um although an individual unit needs it was specifically made for this commercial off-the-shelf drone um the scenario for the concept of operation uh the you know the utility company have been doing similar flights for the past year um so they hold all the relevant licenses and procedures and training will also be provided we're going to go through procedures a little bit later on

**[21:09]** there are great options for flight control software out there and there's some also not so good ones it's important to do your due diligence we are for this scenario we're going to be using the flat base software for this scenario so developing that was our concept of operations a lot involved but that's all the things you've got to do to make sure it's going to be a feasible prop like program developing a concept of operation is and ever changing so as we continue down the risk process additional mitigations or limitations may be identified requiring like additional associated technical details or procedures so we might have to then update that concept of operations as well now we have a clear defined concept of operation you would look at the risk to the air and the ground risk and look if there's any way that you can lower or you actually if you need to lower the risk any further the ground risk looks at

**[22:09]** a person being strapped by the struck by the drone um in case of loss of the drone control so we would look at the characteristics of the drone at like you know what like what is the typical kinetic energy at impact and also we would look at the intended area of operation the operational volume is determined in of like a 4d space so the latitude longitude height and time in particular we would also look at the accuracy of navigation solutions flight technical errors of the drone and the path definition error as well latencies should also be considered an address in this determination you would need to look if the error is sparsely populated or you know populated every country unfortunately has a little bit different of a different um a definition of what they all are between controlled sparsely populated and populous um but the as I mentioned the controlled ground environment is quite a good one because it usually if you can claim that it is a lower risk level than because

**[23:16]** there's no general public can enter into that area we then some mitigations you might want to start putting some uh mitigations into your into your risk for a safety case if you want to call it um some of the ones that I know that the regulators have been accepting a one-to-one buffer for your operational area from dwellings or places of higher risk what this means if if your flight is 120 meters you need 120 meters buffer from the edge of your operational and contingency areas we also have seen some great options for claiming lower population density through industrial estates at night or residential areas during the day you might also look at reducing the risk um reduce the effect of you know impact dynamics an example could be parachutes which I know someone's talking about a little bit later in the regulatory section um another example could be like a powerlift aircraft but not only where that power source um

**[24:20]** you know has has of the rotors has a redundancy as well for the scenario we have already decided that it's a controlled environment um and we are going to use a one-to-one buffer to lower that risk let's look at go to the air let's look at the air risk for the ares we would usually look at the intrinsic risk of a mid-air collision and also the chance and also the chance of encountering air traffic we would be characterized by categories you know like altitude controlled versus uncontrolled um airport heliport versus non-airport heliport environments urban versus rural etc we would also look at ways then of applying strategic or tactical mitigations to lower that risk an example of strategic mitigation um you know could be by operating times um or you know within certain boundaries we could use common structures for rules um

**[25:22]** like examples of this which is usually quite common around the world are vhf radio calls no tans or conforming to airway restrictions after applying those strategic first mitigations of any residual risk of the mid-air collision is usually addressed by tactical mitigations so tactical mitigation which include both the tactical process of a separation provision and the collision avoidance so tactical mitigations take form of detect and avoid systems or alternate means such as like adsb or utm or use-based services or operational procedures um depending on that residual risk for mid-air collision the tactical mitigations may vary of what is actually required um for this scenario we're going to play in class g air space there's no adjacent risk um like controls um however a lot of the areas are flying the uncontrolled aerodrome so we're going to leave that one in but as you

**[26:24]** might have mentioned in my concept of operations we actually said that we were gonna fly within a hundred foot of a structure many countries from around the world uh allow you to utilize something called atypical airspace there's a few different meanings of what that means but one of the ones like like for example in australia atypical airspace one of the things we can utilize is if you're flying within 100 foot of a structure or 120 meters laterally from that object you can actually claim that it's very unlikely that there will be air traffic in that area so it's atypical airspace which is a very low risk environment so we then would look still look if we wanted to look at how far possible we could lower to further any further mitigations we could add those we're going to add our strategic mitigations we're going to do radio calls um and no tens will also be raised for our job and we're going to use adsb for our tactical mitigations so conscious of time other look we'll go through the last few really quickly other

**[27:29]** considerations for bv loss where rp has technical issues so we would look at your proposed training procedures maintenance programs deep dive into the commander control and communication list I'm going to bring that up all through this presentation multiple times because it's such an important component for remote operations bb loss we can look at the external systems evaluate um and look at things that you cannot control that's what we've sort of just spoken about gps or internet we look at human factors our case study we're going to fly for 24 hours we look how are we going to manage fatigue we also look at hmi which is the human machine interface the system setups the displays the handover takeover multiple crew coordination and also it's always the procedures and training implemented we would look at adverse operating conditions so operating within environmental considerations can the crew actually identify what operation will be out of their limits and what

**[28:32]** procedures and training outline this in your documentation as well next slide finally [Laughter] so remote operation considerations as most this conference and also our use case is flying from highly auto automated systems and drone the box solution let's look at some of those additional requirements we need to consider on top of or just you know it's an enhanced view of some of the ones we talked about in the last slide for creating that safety case we're going to need one of the first things once again I'm going to say it is we really need to look at how we command and control the aircraft the c2 or c3 links how are you going to actually fly that we need to look at the latency of the connection from where the pilot inputs the commands to when that aircraft responds um for some of the low to mid risk that we're talking about in this scenario we have been able to provide like telecommunication data coverage maps or view shed analysis

**[29:33]** and the hmi assessments um which we're going to discuss shortly um will suffice however as that risk level goes higher other options of just determining the connection will also be required to be provided we discussed in previous slides as we looked at the air on the ground risk consideration additional thought was placed into some of those mitigations that we placed um or maybe a requirement from your regulator one of the biggest challenges but I didn't think it was going to be but it ended up being a long sort of process was we actually it was how do we communicate with the vhf um air traffic so there are some off-the-shelf radio over ip options however basically that's just a relay system so you can you can hear what they're saying and you can repeat these options were not going to work for us um mostly due to the fact that the regulator requires you to be able to control the radio check it works check screech listen and scan on multiple challenge channels because you may want to actually have multiple

**[30:38]** drawings up at the one time in different geographical areas so we ended up working with a communications specialist to create comms in a box which is a portable system for vhf communications and adsb it has all the required side equipment and antennas in a portable weatherproof box and all associated systems for that remote operation center we also found look and hopefully there's some of this stuff we can change as time goes on but sometimes you've just got to do it to start with until the regulators build up more confidence in in the systems processes and procedures we found that they allow us to install a site camera at the moment at the location to assist with being able to clear that air and ground risk when we're leaving and also to pick up some items that maybe you're used to doing on your pre-flight check similar to when you're doing visual line of sight flights hardware obviously some straightforward ones you're going to require for this a drone or maybe a box um however look you want to make sure that there's a large enough areas where you can have flat maybe some concrete on it so the water flows

**[31:41]** off we want to add some extra signage or you know fence to where the actual base station is located um we're not going to be on site so we probably need to install a weather station we need the commons in the box power supplies ups um definitely good internet connectivity sometimes that might need some independent networking as well we would be required to make sure all of these solutions are suitable for hmi assessment and also if there's required maintenance on all the components this is also this is it was sort of weird two of the things that you know for our first one came back and forward with the regulators quite a lot um and we also need to make sure that most companies are aware of these for so many years people have been conducting vlas evloss or vivi last flight from where the actual location the drone is launching from this allowed them to complete that visual pre-flight inspection as part of the maintenance program but however as they are now

**[32:42]** flying from a remote location that this can't always be done so we also found the one thing that was a little bit difficult that a lot of the oem or the manufacturer manual still say a visual inspection is required um so we need to come up with ways where we can do that pre-flight check if it's I said by utilizing camera or you know trying to get them to to remove that or doing um a lot of the systems and software does automated checks as well the software um we still would probably utilize someone on site to do a visual inspection you know might be monthly or whatever your regulator feels um happy in providing and we would still need to send someone out to do the manufacturer maintenance level if it's 100 hours or 500 hours or whatever is stated and recommended by those manufacturers of both the box and all the associated equipment the drone and every other piece of equipment um the software is crucial I'm not

**[33:43]** going to talk a lot about this because you're going to hear a lot about it over the next few presentation but it is quite quite it's probably one of the most important components because it's where we actually get all of the information we need to write those procedures and those emergency procedures as well which we're going to talk about shortly along with the risk assessment which you've spoken about for a while um there's other associated things that a regulator are going to want you to show to to see so go to the next slide this one is just look it's a kml you want to you want to be able to show them like so they can have a really clear visual idea of what um and where you're flying look this one doesn't actually match sorry it doesn't actually match the use case but you know you want to put things on like the range of the c2 links the flight paths vertical limits if you're using a one-to-one buffer contingency areas you would you'd highlight that around your operational area alternate landing sites and any associated airspace uh next slide

**[34:44]** so we have addressed many items in the risk assessment that the procedures of how you're actually going to do this and manage your flight is a crucial requirement so from normal procedures to your emergency procedures the steps you are going to follow or the expected outcomes of your flight control software will follow if an issue occurs so you need to include things in your normal procedures like you know flight planning assembly pre-flight launch the actual operations recovery post flight emergency procedures um there's you know everything from degradation of your c2 links um fly away termination lock of loss of vhf communications and many more that I've stated there as well so the one thing what we really need and it's the first thing I ask people when they call is are you working with people that have good manuals it's really great um so for this use case scenario for example I want a drone operation manual for that drone I want a drone maintenance

**[35:47]** manual if they've got one I wanna comes in the box user guide I want the flight bet flight based software user manual I want the box hardware user manual and any other additional user manual because we that's where we can get a lot of the information to create those procedures which form a huge part of your safety case to your regulator I'm going to go to the next slide um hmi this one sort of actually is pretty exciting to me as one of my favorite elements um and it means you're actually up to like you know you're up to the operational checks um and making sure that everything you've written in your safety case actually works as it should so the hmi looks at everything from how your station is set up is adequate environment suitable can the vhf radio be heard um it needs to be very clearly labeled and easy to understand is the software manageable can the interface of the software be like simple and clear for the pilot is the latency bandwidth for the flight as expected

**[36:51]** we would look this little diagram of like a very basic operation center it doesn't all have to have um you know a super high-tech one like the nasa control room however would be pretty cool but you can do start with something pretty simple like what I've got in the diagram so having two screens you might have your flight operational software on one you might have some weather your adsb and your radios on some of the other monitors as well usually we always have to have a ups or backup power we modems and backup modem as well I used to use we usually when we set up remote ups uh try to get fiber or additional lines so we don't have any issues with bandwidth as well headphones emergency response phone and obviously the normal things like lighting chairs table um and you know extra charts and ursas and things like that so on the site it's the same things need to be clear and easy to understand you would have the you know all the things we've talked about the drone the box the

**[37:54]** internet the comms in a box the routers power supplies signage camera weather stations um we'd also probably put an equine unit especially if you're flying in australia super hot need to keep keep every temperature cold or um in often some areas where I see people on it's cold for them I want to keep things warmer I think to the next slide the emergency response plan um you sort of need this for this and it's created if that top you know that top bowtie risk assessment the loss of control of the operations um these are the emergency situations where the operation is unrecoverable um so it could not be handled by any of those contingency or the emergency procedures we would have created in the procedures the um so in this scenario we're operating from the remote operations center so we would need to make sure that we would have someone on that site or near that site that could respond if there's an emergency and said I might be located on the other side of the country um so we do need to rely on the site person to be that person and we

**[38:57]** need to have communication with them so they need to be if the drone lands we'd make sure they're trained up on how to deal with the lipo fire and things like that as well the last slides we'll finish up with because I know I'm getting on the time um so one to many so one to many is and I know we've mentioned it throughout the presentation so what is it it's going to be a crucial part of bb loss operations um and it's pretty well the step before full autonomy it's where one pilot can fly multiple drones at the same times and the drones don't need to be in the same location although that often when we start it's like that crawl walk run you might want to start with them at the same location and then move out um we are seeing a big trend in australia at the moment we're flying multiple drones at once so you know might be a few for agriculture or 15 to 20 for drone delivery the hmi is a crucial part to one-to-many operations so you know what if your software doesn't allow you you can't have 10 monitors monitoring 10 drawings or 10 controllers so you need to make sure that software has that hmi and it's all

**[40:00]** accessible and manageable look also when you start moving up in the higher numbers and flying multiple it's more about managing non-conformities more than actually individually flying that rps you need that software to be able to tell you when it is not non when it is not conforming to what the program you have set so what's next um next slide so what's next as mentioned we only went through the pathways required for low to medium risks however as the use cases expand the technology advances and the regulatory authorities are further going to define the requirements we're going to see certain elements we're going to need to further scale large-scale drone-the-box operations these include a utm like a uncrewed or a low-level traffic management certifications of rpas or detect and avoid standards and also integrated systems for managing not just managing like flying drones but you know maritime and terrestrial drones as well um and a lot of these items are actually going to be covered by other speakers coming up this evening or morning wherever you are um so

**[41:04]** now we're going to move to questions and also look I'd love to hear about any exciting projects um and if we can help any organizations move forward or you're interested in the bb loss hub please if you don't get asked questions now please come through to me I'd love to love to talk further thank you all right about a few minutes thank you jackie uh yes we are we are exactly on time so again thank you for sharing all these insights with us I'm sure it's going to benefit the entire audience that's keen to conduct bvls operations that's going to be the next bad thing if it's not already and thank you again thank you again for showing us the risks with specific scenarios that that that was an amazing uh uh uh we we gotta learn a lot from it uh okay uh jackie what's in the next video do you just go to the next slide so people can grab my details if they need perfect yes yes got correct so I've got a lot of questions I'll jump right to it if you have

**[42:05]** any questions please type into in the q a tab uh okay so the first one is um how okay I'm just trying to pick up one do you see an increasing opposition to adsb out among regulators considered considering the potential safety implications to manned aircrafts um look yeah I do see implementation and I'm not sure it's going to be the best way forward um it'll be interesting to see how you know other companies sort of even move forward with other options and and the utm pathways as well interesting all right thank you and what do you think how has your experience been you shared a use case or you've gotten permissions for drone in a box units how has the experience been about getting permissions from casa especially uh was that a very difficult process was that simple enough will help people be able to get that easily yeah look the

**[43:06]** first one's always harder um because obviously the regulatory authority don't have all the pathways so usually the people like us that end up getting gray hairs from doing that first make the pathway a lot easier for the second and third and fourth look if you forgot really your concept and all your information provided it can be done um look I do I do think like people should reach out and speak to people that really focus on those approvals um it really can save you a lot of time um because yeah there is a lot involved with what's required but they're very open to it we're starting to see many push through we're also starting to see join the box utilized by evie loss this is sort of a first start as well for evie lost class two the ones that are through castle that might might understand that that process so that's a great way to join in while you're waiting for your baby loss approvals great and um do you think there's a list or you've already shared a basic checklist for drones and docking station uh to be compliant for casa uh maybe there's a quick checklist that people can you know just go and uh have a look at

**[44:11]** um look I do and I probably should should share something out over the coming weeks we do sort of have it have a checklist um it's usually like all the different elements listed in sort of some of the estimates we put out what it's going to cost for to set your own remote operation center but it yeah we can do the hardware checklist but there's also the the regulatory checklist to make sure that your concept of operations and all of those external options are um suited as well uh one question that jackie is out there how long does it take to get these approvals like what is the typical waiting period or yep depends on what country you're from depends on what country you're from and I guess the the priority list and how they organize that but look um look I'll give the australian and then maybe I'll do a comparison with like caa in new zealand or something like that um for bb loss operations in australia it's usually between they like to say three months but I'm saying it's more between three

**[45:14]** and six months um so that's what we would sort of say at the moment three months would be really good as long as all your paperwork if they if the regulator it doesn't matter what part of the world if the regulator has to keep coming back and forward it can draw it out for a year or two years um so it's really understanding having all that documentation having all your procedures and everything written and then then that's almost like a pleasure for them to read and they can they can go through it and move through quite quickly but yeah three to six months is what we're seeing um sometimes in other countries I'm seeing it a little bit longer um it's probably because australia has already done sort of you know I think they're up to about 300 plus bb loss approvals at the moment so they're getting sort of systems in place and they introduce the standard scenarios which is really good as well did you say 300 plus that that's a great number to start with yes brilliant I think we are all almost up on time uh I uh I mean we are already over time so again thank you jackie for answering all these questions uh and uh let's hope to see more

**[46:16]** vividly operations and and thank you for showing the path for adoption uh would you like to share some closing thoughts before we uh close further no I I don't know anything but don't give up it's it's it's so we need to keep pushing those boundaries we need to just do it and if you break it down into small sections it can be achieved um it's not don't expect the regulator to give you all the answers um it's a learning curve for everyone including them so it's always you really have to explain what you're doing um and help them understand as well because a lot of this stuff that we're all doing is new to everyone so don't expect them to be able to tell you every every answer all right uh again uh thanks everyone I I've also posted the poll result jackie we completely missed that out so around if you just go to the polls tab you can see almost 53 percent of the audience is using uh conducting drone operations currently

**[47:17]** in within the line of sight 39 are trying out bvls which is a huge number and percentage in my opinion and uh nine point seven percent is still trying uh to figure out how to use drones which is again a great thing uh so let's hope uh if you have if you want to share something about the results no perfect no I couldn't actually find where they were on my screen so I'm glad you both brought them up okay uh all right uh so uh great uh audience joining us today thank you again uh yes thank you jackie you're saying something no I said thank you so much it's great to be on and I'm probably going to go to bed soon so I'm going to have to watch back everyone else's presentation um when you release them jackie's coordinates are up on the slide so if anybody who would want to reach out to jackie we also have a booth of however uv so feel free to go there during the booth visits and just register interest jackie is going to receive an email and you

**[48:18]** can join uh you know talk or communicate with them uh we have uh three uh we have a in the next few minutes we are coming up with networking sessions so you can just hop on to the sessions window create a round table on the topic of your choice or join one of the existing uh or exciting discussions on popular topics where for topics such as public safety security operations uh regulations inspection so just feel free to join in one of these sessions or you can create one of your own depending on the topic of your choice and just communicate with the entire community that that we are trying to build so thank you again for joining us have a great day and have a great time at nest and see you in the next session