# Decoding EU Regulations: Compliance, Safety, and Innovation

- Event: NestGen ’24
- Published: April 11, 2024
- Length: 55:36
- Watch: https://nestgen.org/library/watch/yOmYZUhsT_I/

> The transcript of a recorded NestGen session, for reading or for use with an AI tool. It comes from the video's
> captions; automatic captions can mishear names and terms.

## About this session

In this engaging panel discussion, experts discuss the intricacies of European drone regulation, compliance, safety, and innovation. Led by seasoned regulatory professionals, the dialogue navigates through the impact of autonomous drones and automation. From operational-centric strategies to performance-based regulations like Regulation 945 and 947, the panelists shed light on critical legislative frameworks. They address real-world challenges, including lengthy response times from authorities and the imperative for streamlined processes. Insightful discussions on emerging technologies such as UTM (Unmanned Traffic Management) and U-Space provide a glimpse into the future of drone operations. Balancing safety, innovation, and regulatory compliance, this discussion offers invaluable insights for industry stakeholders.

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## Transcript

**[0:20]** good morning everyone H firstly I would like to express my gratitude to next for for inviting me to moderate this panel it is an absolute pleasure to share this time with with such experienced and distinguished panelist my name is Juan HOSA I am currently work as a director of Regulatory Affairs and commercial space at morili Consulting before that I was the head of us division for the Spanish civil aviation Authority uh I have also been part of the a airpass panel jarus and asasa drone focal point my background is aerospace engineering and I am a licensed pilot for both traditional aircraft and and drones um today we will talk about the coding European regulation compliance safety and Innovation mainly focus on autonomous autonomous drones and autonomous operation automation is a is an intriguing subject that cuts across several areas and activities in our daily life so I will proceed

**[1:24]** without any delay to introduce our panelist quickly today with us are Amanda BHO who is the Deputy head of strategy and Innovation at foca which is the civil aviation authority of Switzerland also filipo tomasel senior partner at e Euro USD Italia Mr morier retired at the European safety agency and French dgc and Andrew hatti who is eace conops development at Euro control so I all them to briefly introduce them themselves and and kindly ask them to share the their experience with the European rules so far so first I give the floor to to tws thank you very much good morning good afternoon everybody um as one said my I've been a regulator all my life I've been working for the fin Aviation

**[2:25]** Authority for the joint Aviation authorities of of Europe and Fin for the esa at the end of my of my career I was mostly involved in the drafting of European uh drone regulation I I have prepared a presentation but I'm not sure that I see it so in order not to lose time I will just make a verbal overview um so these European rules were created in order to create in fact the European market uh their characteristic is that they are operation Centric risk-based and performance-based operation Centric we we took in fact the advantage that there is nobody on board of a drone yet to create an approach where the the risk is essentially related to the where the operation is occurring and in the

**[3:25]** airspace in which the operation is occurring so risk-based foll that came as normal and performance-based was in order to take into account the fact that Throne regulations are moving very quickly regulation you regulation address safety security privacy and environment that is in order to be acceptable to the to the public and basically we have four main regulation one which is a primary legislation that actually set up the aviation system in Europe and Esa which incl include the essential requirements in the um for the drones and in particular the obligation for opor to be registered we have one regulation regulation 29945 which contain the technical requirement for the Drone another one which is 219 947 which creates which are the requirements for drone operation and then we have a set of three other regulation dated 2021 664 665 and 666

**[4:32]** that create the US space system um as I said we have create our regulation are operation Centric so we have created three categories one which is the open category uh which uh doesn't require any particular authorization um is in fact the safety is ensured by I would say approval of the drones and training for the p pilot and a set of limitation like visual of sight or operation below 120 and 20 M on the other R side of the range you have a certified category which is uh we have more or less adopted the same regul same system as for Mand aircraft in that case that is to say a drone which is certified a pilot which has a license and an operator that have an air operator certificate in the middle which cover a lot of things we have a specific category which is basically uh

**[5:34]** relying on an authorization given by the National Authority based on a risk assessment conducted by The Operators okay we have some other flexibilities like standard scenarios predetermined risk assessment that provide alleviation to this General principle of authorization based on a risk assessment regulation for open and specific are complete with together with the means of comp the necessary means of compliance and they are fully applicable since the 1 of January this year um except maybe for some National Standard scenarios it can remain usable until 2025 work is still in progress for the certified category um usace is has been recent adopted in 2021 entered into became applicable in 2023 us space a space are created after uh I would say risk assessment on safety

**[6:37]** security privacy and environment are conducted after coordination with the local entities the common information service where all the data necessary for the operation of the airspace exist is one of the key element of the usace system uh service providers are certified so does actually the common information service provider and those um services that are being provided in a given new space a space uh four are mandatory remote ID identification Geo awareness flight authorization and flight information and two other weather and conformance are um optional so I think that was uh the presentation I mean sorry we couldn't share it but I think I've given you the essentials about the European regulation thank you very much for your attention thank you very much is very illustrative and and now I give the floor to

**[7:49]** Amanda I think it's on me I just had an issue with the audio okay awesome thank you so um I'm the deputy head of the strategy and Innovation section um at forecast of the S CA where actually I lead the legal implementation of us space in Switzerland and um these sections aims somewhat to define the strategy to follow regarding Innovation uh and if necessary to implement it so in the recent years the focus was mainly on the implementation of us space in the EU uh with um also an emphasis on UTM in general uh and now we're see a kind of a shift towards data and AI so the next year will be uh focusing on data Andi always with u the airspace access in mind so I started five years ago when the 945 and 947 regulations were coming into Force across the whole EU except in Switzerland because uh an association had

**[8:51]** filed a motion in Parliament that postponed the entire regulations effective date to actually last year and until then Switzerland had very liberal rules where for example there was no set height limit but you just had to fly for example in Vos um and back at the time without lot of Regulation we were still the first um country to ground a boss authorization in the middle of the city to an operator for blood sample delivery um we have seen some resistance when the two regulations came into force from Swiss operator operating sold in Switzerland for example because they were more limited than before um and with the implementation of the regulation there has been a shift towards the professionalization of professions uh and the harmonization of rules at an EU level while opening markets and borders for um operators and service provider however we have also seen that access to airspace has become somewhat more

**[9:56]** complicated and that regulation sometimes strug to keep up with the industry and the new technologies which can sometime be a break on Innovation actually so as a regulator finding the balance between regulating while leaving enough space for Innovations is a really really challenging Balancing Act um that's why I think as an authority in especially the caas we need to be agile understand the needs of the industry uh by actively participating for example to anization uh taking part to associations but also communicate proactively uh through our stakeholders and as working for fora I have a feeling that we always have been really agile and we continue to do so uh and what is also but but it's also strength um our strength is that we are small country we know our stakeholders um but this agility in our active participation also have been key in new space uh during this five years years uh as

**[11:00]** I said I had the major task of dealing with the implementation of fpace both from a legal point of view and in a coordination with stakeholders and we played an active role in establishing the regulations but we also set up some partnership for example called Suzie the SS use space implementation comprising around 30 members with the aim of testing and implementing use Bas services and their standards such as remote identification or strategic complete detection SoCal us F authorization in the usace framework and I have the feeling that this way of working with industry is a driving force uh in finding the right balance between industry needs Innovation and safety and currently we're in the process of implementing you space in Switzerland from U but yeah from an early experience these regulations already allow much more room from the industry and new technologies giving service provider the opportunity to create a whole new market and organiz organize

**[12:01]** themselves um for example through agreement on data exchange on governance or on certain choices of standards for for example but we also expect at service provider to be certified which will ensure trust uh throughout them but also with us uh Innovation and this greater flexibility does not stop there um it also affects man deviation with the new criteria for examp example for electronic conspicuity notably with the all ADSL solutions that will one day allow the use of mobile network um for traffic information so finally to ensure that right balance is truck between regulation safety Innovation I think that first the caas need to work closely with the industry uh but the industry also is expected to be active in terms of standardization uh to bring solution and also evidence and data so that we can scale to more uh automated operation uh and I'm very pleased to see that because a lot of there is a lot of

**[13:04]** more initiatives coming from the industry for example with GMA or in some you space initiative in hotam in Hamburg or even uh in the US for example with some Dallas initiative so I'm really happy and um I think we're going into the right path to Automation and more complex operations so I'm really happy to uh excited to discuss this today uh with my my colleagues thank you thank you thank you very much Amanda for sharing your your views and in your role as a competent Authority and now H the next one will be filipo tomasel please could you hear me filipo I think you are mute yes I I do and now I believe that you also to hear me okay okay okay so you have my slides on the screen uh I am philipo Tomas

**[14:09]** from Italia next please so so if I may my colleagues already spoke in general about the European regulations on drones and on you SP and you space I would like now to highlight the difference between UTM and Us in fact several colleagues use the two terms as equivalent but in reality they are not in fact UTM is a set of 30 different digital set as listed in the iso

**[15:10]** standard which you see on the left of the screen the the ideas for these 30 Services came largely from EU funded projects C and go and each service has its own designated operational coverage so in UTM there is not one volume volume of air space in which all all services are available but each service may have a different covery conversely U regulation

**[16:12]** 664 mainly establishes volumes of air within which four plus common Information Services must be available next please one so uh on the left of this slide us space is applicable in the union it mainly establishes main establishes what Tao calls restricted areas because there are conditions to enter area there is decision by the state for these volumes and they have to carry out an air space safety assessment and certify the services conversely

**[17:13]** in IA and ISO each service may be certified by industry and the two things intersect because some of the services which are not mentioned in new regulation 664 may never exist new Space volume okay thank you I have finished Juan thank you thank you very much philipo for highlighting the difference between UTM and and um usace and now last but not least I give the floor to to Andrew okay I'll try to be brief uh so I work with for Euro control Euro control is a paneuropean um International Organization we have 41 member states we have two states that we have special agreements with they cannot join because they're not physically in Europe and we have a a working relationship with the EU the EU is is a

**[18:16]** member in a kind of strange way um so we have really two roles we have an an operational role we provide services like the network manager and we have a technical role and this technical role has three aspects we provide support to States we get in uh we offer training and we get involved in research including having a major input into the Cesar uh projects and that's where I work and I have worked in in research projects to do with the development of UTM and I was involved in developing this concept of operations in the chorus project that filipo just mentioned and in that project we described how these Services would work how they would interact interact and how they would allow safe flight in in usace so euroc contr control has provided support to States who are interested in in uh exploring this eurocontrol has provided support to asasa we have helped

**[19:18]** develop the regulations we have supported the development of the acceptable means of compliance and guidance material which goes with the regulations typical the regulation will be very brief and will say do this and the acceptable means of compliance will say you can do it in this way if you follow some standard or or or some other procedure we've also taken part in the development of some of these standards which are referred to in the regulation and one area where we're very active is um we've written a handbook for this airspace risk assessment process that filipo talked about uh it will finally appear in four volumes the first volume has been published the second one uh we're concluding it should be published very soon and this handbook is aimed at getting states to a position where they can comfortably perform airspace risk assessment on their own euroc control has been supporting States in doing this but our aim is training rather than consultancy we

**[20:20]** are not going to be around to support every airspace risk assessment we just would like to help develop the method and get people going so I know that Amanda's team have had some interaction with us and have gone on to do airspace risk assessment successfully uh I I think there's quite a number of other states who are involved in this so I may say something about that in fact my colleagues mostly work on that I'm I'm more involved in the concept stuff but I'm here to present the eurocontrol point of view thank you HHO thank you very much um Andrew there is uh it's very interesting um what eurocontrol is is doing to develop this all of these conops and of of course the the airspace risk assessment that is something that is very very new and is very challenging for for all of us so I I would like to start the debate so I can I can just steer the conversation with some questions first one

**[21:24]** um H philippo you you have um you have shared with us the difference between your space and the akm but uh how how do you think autonomous operation impact in in in both in them well one of the postulates on which we are developing UTM is that there is no Human air traffic controller everything is digital and all these services are provided digital no wonder we already have them for instance in our mobile telephone we all use satellite navigation to have our position and find the PATH and we receive there even geographical information equally when we download meteorological information also we interact with no human in the future in the future this would be also

**[22:26]** for separation already today in regulation 664 we have what that rule calls flight authorization which is no more and no less than what we know as flow management but even flow management is mainly digitized between the unit in Brussels and older space Europe the old the airspace users across Europe and this would continue on the the other side we know that even drones are becoming more and more autonomous and so they will exchange data with other objects in the so-called internet of the things for instance ISO 5491 already standardizes the exchange of data between the approaching drone and the vort without any human intervention

**[23:29]** in the end in the end when the aircraft will be able to govern this trajectory in this state without any remote pilot According to some colleages the remote pilot will simply disappear but the company the operator would still remain accountable and liable and even if the flight is autonomous someone may need to plan the flight before it happens obtain the authorizations interact with certain services and should it be necessary activate the emergency response plan so except piloting there are some tasks which remain and In This Moment the idea in the community is that this person executing

**[24:29]** these tasks could be called fleet manager without having piloting skills but more or less being the digital evolution of the flight dispatcher thank you thank you very much philipo it's um it's quite interesting let's see how it is progressing not only in Europe but also in in in the rest of the world my next question will be to Amanda and I figured out that is the same question that Bal has posted in the chat so when it expected to have full scale vivos operations in the in the you know in the European framework so I mean there is vious Operation uh and there is autonomous flight right it's not the same um actually in the EU and in s there there is already pous flight um but the issue is that for example we need to ensure full uh communication full

**[25:31]** range communication we need to ensure that where you want to fly you have traffic information so in Switzerland we know that in control airspace when we will this is the location where we intend to designate the first space airspace drone operator will have uh traffic information surance data because there is the ansp there that is providing um this information directly to to the Drone operators when it comes to uncontrolled airospace there it's for us a more complicated airspace because um there is for now no obligation for Aerospace users to be complet completely conspicuous for example so there the Drone operators need to find some solutions we as FAA want to have and developed our first our second new space airspace in uncontrolled airspace we are looking toward Solutions um so to install some some equipment or have some infrastructure that allows drone operators to have to collect

**[26:32]** such data um but also we need to ensure that um the airspace user will be uh conspicuous so this is more for bous operation when we're targeting maybe more autonomous I don't think it's tomorrow um because it will depend on really several factors like technological advancement uh regulation improvements in safety and air traffic management and as as well as public acceptance um in terms of technology I mean the I know that technological advancements continue to reduce the barriers uh to full autonomy for drones um with some significant actually improvements in detect and AOL systems AI uh machine learnings algorithm and so on and so forth uh those technology are really crucial for ensuring that drones can operate uh safely obviously and efficiently without the human Loop and here standouts will play a crucial role um I know

**[27:34]** and I'm seeing that the industry is becoming more mature by taking more time to develop their technology and Associated standards however the technology is not yet fully developed um at this point and it's not only about the technology um it's also for example about the regulation here ASI is really playing a key role in shaping the regulative framework for the drones in Europe Europe and this regulation are evolving uh to address several challenges of integrating drones into the airspace uh focusing on safety privacy uh security for example and the pace at which fully automate autonomous operations are adopted will heavily depend on the development and the implementation of this regulation at the moment the existing regulations do not allow um the use of fous drones but they are moving in that direction notably with the US regulation that allows vious

**[28:34]** operation maybe not at full scale but I mean they will allow BOS operation probably even network of usace Regulation the question mark is what and how can we develop evos operation outside your space for example on the safety and air traffic management I mean ensuring that safety of autonomous drone operation and their integration into uh the existing air traffic system is really crucial and this is where for now usace is the first step toward this that include system for communication navigation civilian uh to manage Dr flights uh alongside man aircraft and uh what is key here and sometime we forgot about this is public acceptance I mean public percept perceptions and acceptance of drones are vetal for the expansion of autonomous drone operations um conerns there is a lot of concerns about privacy safety and noise levels that need to be addressed uh to gain public support and then

**[29:37]** at the end of day there is the market Depend and the applications uh which probably will not be the same in the US or in the EU or in Australia or in Asia so those are the five points for me the Five Pillars that need to be addressed before going full scale full aut autonomous operation and full people flight okay thank you very much I think yes that there are concept that are that are that are linked us space autonomous and um of course VV loss so could I just jump in uh I would draw your attention to the fact that there is a little bit of coverage of autonomy already in the uh the usace regulation there are a mention of contingency procedures in the case of lost Link and when the aircraft has lost its uh controll link it is flying autonomously and you'll find mention of that here and there there's a requirement in the regulation and in the acceptable means of compliance there's a requirement that these contingency procedures should

**[30:40]** always be deconflict so I think there is the beginnings of something about autonomy in in the EU regulations and I would see it as being a natural step that this could be expanded as interest in autonomy grows and we should be realistic IC the as as filipo said the pilot of um remote aircraft has not the same abilities or or or a sense of of awareness of the pilot of aand aircraft so there's already the first kind of step towards autonomy in that most of these flights are flying following a a path which has been entered into the the aircraft and and this person remotely even in the best of cases is more of a supervisor than uh hands on pilot so we have gradation of autonomy naturally and we have some handling of it in the regulation so we're going in the right direction I think okay thank you very much uh andreo just with your your last

**[31:44]** reflection I I would like to to connect it with the next question that I have for EES because um we know that training in aviation is a crucial aspect but with increasing autonomy in operation if uh in your opinion what are the key points for training or what will be the real role of Pilots uh in this uh in this context thank you thank you R um yes it's a it's a rather complicated question at the at the time being but very very interesting one would just like to start by confirming that actually uh autonomy was invisible right from the beginning in the EU regulation we have forbid it in the open category also in the standard scenario and the predetermined risk assessment but the door was open so there is a possibility and even there is some when you look at the responsibilities

**[32:46]** and of the of the operator that is to say the organization that operate the Drone and and the pilot you will see that there are mentions like you need to EST Lish to identify what are the responsibilities what are the tasks which are taken by I would say the autonomous system and and the pilot it's not very precise but I think it's a it's a beginning the beginning as Andre was saying the beginning of something so to to to go a little bit beyond that uh we could say that we have a perhaps already aircraft like the one produced by whisk or the one used by ehong which are where there is no pilot on board which are actually drones in fact with people on board but no pilot more in those cases I think they are a little bit remotely piloted the question is still what can the pilot do so if you look at the what yasa has done for example in

**[33:49]** terms of those EVS is to use a process which is called operational suitability data which is in general a process that obliges the manufacturer to define the essential requirements for the training of Pilots mechanics of flight attendance Etc so Esa intend to use that to provide a type rating for such machines which could be applicable to either fixed Wing or helicopter pilot so the the process a little bit difficult because at the beginning of the OSD process is using compare the aircraft to other aircraft and the problem is that we have no no comparison really at the time being but it's certainly procedurally a way to do it on a more technical ground there is what gamma the general aviation manufacturer Association has developed which is called simplified vehicle operation in which and

**[34:51]** I hope people will not take me wrong when I say that they actually deconstruct the pilot in the sense that they identify what can be done by the systems by the machine and what can be done by the pilot and so it's it's a way to then using such a process to identify what is a remaining training for the pilot or as philipo was saying the person that supervise the fleet manager they could be there could be several terms to be to be given to to that and uh this process means that okay if a pilot do something if a person do something he she must be trained to do it if the system take a certain responsibility it must be certified in accordance with the criticality of the system that's very quickly the idea of the simplified vehicle operation now Amanda mentioned the word AI I think that when you look at autonomy

**[35:54]** autonomy is basically AI in fact will rely on High level models of artificial intelligence and then you come to another question is looking at the level which are possible for AI in accordance to the ESR road map you see that there could be AI that assist the pilot it could be ultimately AI that will do everything but in the middle you have actually AI that could be seen as a copilot so one part of the training of the pilot or the person that operate machine would be also to how to cooperate with the AI so it's not using a system anymore but it's to work with a system which is actually a copilot sorry if my terms are a bit a bit lemman but I try to express how I understand it I'm not an expert but I think here there is another dimension to the training which is being added is that you are going to cooperate with a a a

**[36:57]** system which is not a system but which is actually someone who help you and has his own way of thinking so that's very broadly what I could say about training yes thank thank you if maybe maybe you can answer the another question that we we have from vital H which is uh will training on flight simulator be necessary in the future of using drones well I would say certainly well simulation seems to be the future in terms of of training Advantage you can do you can do a lot of things um in a less risky manner when I think of man aircraft but also for drones there are already simulators that for example help you to simulate the mission so you you create your mission you simulate your mission and you see what could be the difficulty that we facing so yes

**[37:58]** for me there will be simulators uh for for drawn in the future and when there will be drones which are um carrying passengers which are the system produced by Wing by Sorry by whisk and by ehong uh you will have actually no pilot on board but they there will be a need to train those Pilots using some probably virtual reality simulators Still Still start to to come thank you thank thank you very much uh I uh I think we have um you you all have you know comment uh commented the some as aspect of the of the the flights that the the you know the automation but I would like to ask all of you and and about which application could be or will be the main ones um considering this

**[39:04]** future fully autonomous operation Medical Services during emergency for instance to bring a defibrillator in few minutes somewhere we cannot have one remote pilot next to each drone waiting that the the fibrillator is necessary so this operation have to be autonomous equally surveillance of critical infrastructures or perimeters of factories with drones sleeping in a box until something trigger the Drone flights which can be a sensor but can be also the security control room because they want to inspect and these operations are relatively short range and very low level so they would have minimum

**[40:06]** interference with other airspace users thank you philipo maybe one of you want to to share your your views on this I'm I'm fully aligned with filipo uh I think what is really the the the the demand and and the kind of operation will definitely depend on on where you are it will not be the same in the US or in Australia where there are many isolated houses over many kilometers uh for example I mean the geography and the density the population density play here a crucial role in how Technologies as how autonomous drone operation are adopted and utilized so I think in any case emergency and Rescue Services surveillance in inspection of course Maybe agriculture as well in San we have a lot of wine yards a lot of crop spraying companies so this is maybe also here um a targeted oper kind of operation that will treat full aut autonomous

**[41:11]** operation yeah I I would Echo filipo this drone in a box solution is something where the Drone will fly on response to some external trigger and we cannot expect to have somebody sitting around waiting to Pilot that drone it it it's commercially infeasible and it's like no kind of job for anybody to have to sit and wait and then suddenly be flying so these drone in a boxes are a classic um case for automation uh and autonomous flight that probably they would respond to some alert and they would go and and take a picture of what's happening and it would need to be fully autonomous the problem that we have to solve is the one that the fleet manager will be involved in which will be the escalation of the unexpected when we have some uh you know helicopter there which wasn't planned or something like that then there will be a need to escalate to some um improvised activity but for routine operations

**[42:12]** I think autonomy is going to come very fast because it reduces uncertainty it reduces cost and it will actually make the control by an automatic means easier because we'll have machine talking to machine there won't be the human there doing unexpected things yes I I I think everything is connected because ER you have H commented about this uh medical delivery or this kind of blue lights operation and I think is connected with something that is for me was a very good point that Amanda mentioned about the so social accepts maybe the first step is to start doing this autonomous flight for this purpose because could be more acceptable for for for society what do you think about this so in Switzerland this is what we saw a lot of a lot of operators are coming

**[43:16]** to us with they have plenty of ideas they want to deliver plenty of projects but the first use case here coming to us is lot sample um medicaments between hospitals Pharmacy and and this is really the first application that we're seeing in Switzerland uh we have also long range bous operation but it's Rea which are a hemp operator um they using now drones to do search and rescue and some kind of missions so the population are more used actually in Switzerland for now to go with healthc care um and everything touching uh yeah Health um we are seeing now other kind of use case with more delivery of products of logistical surveillance but for now we know that the public is not really receptive uh so health is first and then we can probably open the door to other um to other uh yeah to other solution and other

**[44:17]** projects thank you thank you we have another question but I think it's more for E because Tango is asking about um new if there is any uh implementation plan for for regulation 945 and 947 so we know that uh many many ER you know many things have been published byasa this year but do you if do you do you have any any news on this thank you one can you can you repeat the question please youve been broken at least from my side okay yes the the question is from Tango he he asked Are there any new implementation plan for for 945 and 947 okay uh yes there are I would say a quite a number of um

**[45:20]** quite a number of IDs but I think the they are described by the way in the Europe plan for Aviation safety or also in the Drone the EU drone strategy 2.0 perhaps in my view the most important one is to at the time being to take in fact the Lessons Learned of the beginning of implementation of those regulation be it 945 or 947 and to see what kind of familiar Improvement could be brought there are there are other ideas but I think that's probably the most the most important one and perhaps another significant one I would say would be the implementation of jerus uh Sora 2.5 which hopefully can start at the beginning start at the end of the end of this year but that that I think what I could I could I could mention which perhaps maybe

**[46:21]** another point which is in a drone EU Drone 2.0 strategy is trying to capitalize on the Synergy between military or state operation and civil civil operation there were some ideas for example to develop standard scenarios that could also be usable by the by the military so that's some some thoughts at what could come in the future thank you and if I have one minute to complement my friend Eve in Europe AA has published five predefined risk assessment which alleviate the burden on the operator to produce the risk assessment itself but these five risk assessment more or less are copy and paste from yarus but yarus has around 10 predefined risk assessment some of them

**[47:23]** are finalized by arus but not yet trans osed by AA but nothing prevents an operator to use as a reference the Yus PD and then go to the authority and say I have adopted this assessment this would also reduce the burden on the operator then the authority may agree or not agree but at least not everything would be invented by the operator yes yes thank you thank you very much for for rising up this this this predefined risk ass filipo because it's connected with I think with another question that we have um from Tango um he mentioned what he asked what do you think to divide agricultur drones from some kind of subcategory as the risk are different I think ER one of the jaros um P is for spring and uh and there are others that are

**[48:29]** related for many application one is for you know this big aircraft that that have been tested in at the site others are related with with vioss operation in a typical space because they are flying very close to to some you know Lal infrastructures so I think uh philipo if you can uh develop it a little bit more we can uh uh ask this question about if we have to to divide this kind of applications okay for agriculture we can already operate without any permission in the open category with the Drone up to 25 kilos and in V Los this may be useful for surveys but for spraying any products 25 kilos may not be enough we need the larger drones and in fact yarus has almost finalized

**[49:35]** one PD for agriculture which would allow use of a drone up to 100 or 200 kilos and with this Mass you may transport and spray a sufficient amount of fluids or seeds or what whatever which makes this application interesting and another things which you may need for agriculture is to use extended visual line of sight having one or more observers in the field so covering not 300 or 400 meters but two kilometers which would allow you to better exploit the endurance of your drone going to the far end of the field without artificial intelligence and without complexity of Technology okay thank you very much I think we are running of time so I so

**[50:40]** I request a sentence summarizing your intervention from from all of you if if you can so we can start with Andrew I I think I'm a researcher I'm very interested in in research topics I would very much be interested to see if we could push some of the interesting work being done in autonomy uh the interaction between autonomous control and and piloting into a regulation that we can deploy in Europe okay thank you very much filipo please yes uh our main difficulties in applying 947 was the time taken by the authority to respond to application it can go up to six months if not more is really enormous for the market because end users want

**[51:44]** R operations quite quickly how to overcome this reducing the workload on the authorities without detriment to safety has already been invented by the European legislator in regulation 1139 we have qualified entities but so far AA and the national authorities have been reluctant to exploit these qualified entities and this is damaging the progress of the market thank you filipo as we have H recovered Amanda Amanda please can you uh provide us with a sentence to summarize what we have uh dis discussed today yes I think so we have we saw that we have the regulation there are now in place you space in the 947 945 there are some standards that are now out so I think so the first step before starting to thinking about autonomous or I mean even we

**[52:50]** need to have autonomous in mind autonomous operation but start using those regulations start us using those standards and based on that come to us come to the authorities um with some solution with some improve some some some improvement Solutions so we can improve the regulations and take to the next steps uh that is full autonomous operation so please use everything that is already um here um come to together with the industry standardizations body create a new way not create a new way but try to fill the gap of the regulation and I think then we can go to full autonomous operation thank you and the last but not least if if please I think to to me what is really important at the time being is to again see how those regulations that were created to a certain extent a little bit from

**[53:51]** scratch using the Jus work but with not much of experience remember they were created in 20 in 2019 how they actually function in face of the reality in face of the implementation so I think really the for me the big the big word is to assess the effectiveness to maybe look at some of the issues that filipo has suggested and from there propose I would say Improvement how to how to to to to improve I would say both open and and specific specific category one could use could have some some ideas to I don't know rebalance a little bit the the boundary between open and open and specific uh and also finalize the work on the certified category because the certified category we don't speak much about it in the time being but may become important when we will start operation above cities with very dense uh population

**[54:56]** we may need actually to operate in the certified category and perhaps also some other kind of operation so that would be my my idea let's let's improve what we have based on experience and let's finish the work with a certified C thank you okay so thank you to to to our panelist and audience for for this great European drone regulation autonomy discussion and and many thanks to T and their team for organizing this event I think we have already um finished so thank you very much