# Extending the Reach: The Necessity of ADS-B and C2 Network for BVLOS Flights

- Event: NestGen ’23
- Published: March 21, 2023
- Length: 46:12
- Watch: https://nestgen.org/library/watch/yD9pwXO9WQo/

> The transcript of a recorded NestGen session, for reading or for use with an AI tool. It comes from the video's
> captions; automatic captions can mishear names and terms.

## About this session

Discover at this session why effective communication and surveillance capabilities are essential for safe and secure BVLOS flight ops.

## Transcript

**[0:00]** [Music] thank you [Music] hello everyone and uh welcome to another exciting session of national 23 the industry's largest drone autonomic autonomy Summit so just uh before we begin I would like to uh like gray it would be great if you could uh like let us know a little more about yourself and so that we can get to know you better so could uh if you could drop us some like information on the chat section so where are you joining from and what excited you most about this this session right and so with that let's begin so today in this session we are discussing the very critical Topic in the world of uncrewed Aviation the necessity of adsb and C2 Network for Beyond visual line of sight flights right so with that we have ours next

**[1:05]** speaker and our next speaker is a veteran of the industry with our uh experience in avionics C2 systems daa propulsions power distribution and control please welcome Joe the director of civil uncrewed aviation sales at Avionics so where the avionics was founded with a mission to uh like of bringing Safety Solutions to unclude aviations in Industry to Aid in the integration of uncrewed aerial systems into a National Air Space Systems as the Director of civil uncrewed aviation Sales Joe is responsible for helping to bring these solutions to Market and working with clients to integrate them into their operations right Joe has been working with uncrewed aviation industry since 2008 and seen firsthand the incredible growth and evolution of the technology he brings a wealth of

**[2:07]** knowledge and expertise to our session today we are thrilled to have him share his Insight with us right but just Joe let's just wait for a minute more so but before we begin right I uh I pass it over to Joe I would like to share some housekeeping roles with it so uh please type your questions in Q a tab in this during the session it will be answered or taken during the press and at the end of the presentation the session is getting recorded and all these sessions will be shared with you guys over the email or you can visit our flight Nelson website and we also have a UAV avionics Solutions booth in the Expo section please make sure you visit it during the networking booth and right so finally please remember to capture your favorite movements right with the with of the sessions and share it on Twitter LinkedIn by using a hashtag nextgen23 and tagging FlytBase and definitely do not miss out Joe Gibbs show me your very

**[3:09]** avionics right so there is uh ongoing poll during the sessions please participate and lastly I would like to thank you our sponsors uh the title sponsor DJ Enterprise and our Platinum sponsor volatas airspace for supporting the seawood and helping to make it possible so with that further Ado please give a warm and welcome to Joe yeah excellent thank you pleasure to be here we have a a lot of international clients at uavionics so um um right um this is a very good opportunity for us we're excited let me just quickly share your presentation for that okay thank you okay one second but just juggling okay guys yeah I um we are almost there for that okay Joe can you see it yeah so uh title the

**[4:12]** presentation extending the reach uh the necessity of adsb and C2 networks for BV loss flights uh BV loss is beyond visual line of sight um it's often referred to as the Holy Grail of uas operations um it supports things like uh inspection linear inspection um autonomy things like package delivery delivery and urban aerial Mobility uh uh taxis of the sky right so uh go ahead sir so um we're just going to talk about accelerating the safety case to get a BV loss waiver that's a process that the FAA the Federal Aviation Administration in the United States has uh developed for operations um um and it helps scale up an operation especially for things like we just

**[5:14]** mentioned autonomous flights inspection uh things like that go ahead beignet um you avionics we develop and manufacture very small uh components avionics um just as a background Paul beard is our CEO um and has a long history of uh work within um the radio control Community um The Hobby Community he was the CTO at Horizon Hobby and is actually the inventor of Spread spread Spectrum um technology this is a 2.4 gigahertz technology that that the industry widely adapted um basically this prevents interference so you can fly a drone or a airplane through RC without getting interference from other RC operators um so this is a standard that has um been Incorporated within the industry and even

**[6:15]** in the Drone industry most most folks use this type of Technology um Paul also worked in telecommunication through British Telecom and uh developing voice and data terminals and just brought a team of experts from from Telecom from RF and from semiconductor Industries and put it all together and created you avionics so we have a kind of a um um history um quite a few patents um just a wonderful portfolio of patented technology and now we're building from the ground up a uh a certified C2 system and a certified network manager manager we're going to talk about go ahead so um we're we're developing a centralized Network for command and control um and detect and avoid so command and control is a radio link that actually flies your drone and we're we're most

**[7:16]** interested in making sure you don't lose your drone and you don't have a lost Link scenario this is what leads to accidents this is what leads to drones crashing um if if people in the audience have been around um this industry for a long time they know drones do crash um and so we're trying to prevent that we're building a network with a path diversity uh in redundancy so we're using ISM radios 900 megahertz LTE radios which is cell phone satellite Communications and then c-band which we'll talk about a little bit more which is a dedicated Aviation band a worldwide dedicated Aviation band for uas uh that we're developing from from the bottom up uh and we're not taking a radio technology and adapting it for uas where we're designing of radio technology

**[8:18]** to facilitate uas from the ground up based on some performance metrics that have been published okay next slide so we're creating an ecosystem and as we just described um we're using multiple paths to make sure your drone stays in the air and you have path diversity c-band is a dedicated Aviation band so you might see a radio like this I see this is one of our high power c-band radios they're small they're lightweight um and they're made to be certified um we also have a satcom module an LTE which is the cell phone module and an ism module but the reason we use multiple paths is because you can have either a for instance LTE can go down um for instance last week I used T-Mobile which is a large operator one of the big three in the United States and our cell phone service went

**[9:19]** down for about six hours one day no excuse no reason why it just went down so you can imagine if you're relying on solely LTE with a UAV and you're flying the online site and the cell surface goes down your UAV is just going to keep going and you're probably not going to get a uh pick up your link again in this case we're using multiple bands and making sure um you never lose the link so we're we're providing the autopilot on the right the LA the link manager was which is the cloud-based manager we call Skyline where we're having uh We've developed a GPS unit which is a Integrity GPS and a certified GPS so we're not so you can get GPS units for your phone for instance but they're not Aviation grade so what we've done is we've developed a GPS unit that's actually certified in aviation grade and then of course adsb which is at automatic dependent surveillance broadcast which will identify other aircraft in

**[10:26]** your area of operation and let your UAV if needed uh produce uh counter measures to avoid piloted aircraft um then this all feeds on the left side you got your command and Control Data that goes down the pipe uh your UTM your unmanned traffic management system and then your your daa which also includes things like uncooperative aircraft and primary radar uh vignette go ahead so this is the uh um this this is how we uh develop Mission Assurance right we use ISM this is a scientific band and I know two to nine Twenty Eight megahertz um this is primarily the band radio band that most people in the United States for instance use when operating under part 107 now part 107 is a

**[11:27]** way to operate drones commercially in the United States um but there's a lot of regulations and a lot of limitations for what can be done you have to fly under 400 feet um you have to have line of sight to your drone at all times or a visual visual visual Observer line of sight to your drone so it really limits the limit the the the type of operations you can do mostly uh uh inspection like Bridge inspection construction things like that um it can facilitate some uh research and development um surveys but not not not a lot and um um it just limits to what you can do photogrammetry can be be done within part 107 but it but it really does limit what you can do that's why the BV loss uh process and the waiver process is is said to be like the Holy Grail of UA uas operations

**[12:33]** opening up other applications like the package delivery in the UAM Market uh but we're also using LTE LTE is very established it's very reliable we use it every day it roams it does everything we need to do but it has I mentioned earlier LTE has some downfalls as well especially in remote areas mountainous areas areas that just simply don't have coverage so you can imagine you're you're flying your drone in your BD loss Mission and all of a sudden you lose coverage for a while that's called a loss link scenario and you might get the link back after a bit but in the meantime the Drone is flying by itself without a pilot c-band is the dedicated Aviation band that we're developing radios for we have these radios we've deployed probably 20 or 30 systems so far we have some test sites that are using c-band um this is a dedicated Aviation bat

**[13:35]** um it it it's good all around the world um it's been reserved for Aviation and in some countries like Malaysia for instance they're starting to use it exclusively and then of course satcom we talked about that if if there's no other communication satcom is is often reliable so having multiple paths means no lost links okay thank you so path diversity of course many links um all of them are communicating all at once but only one is actually flying the Drone um so we're monitoring um every path and what we do in Skyline which is the cloud-based application is we have what's called um uh make before a break so we have a system where you're never losing link even

**[14:36]** for a fraction of a second so we'll have two systems for example say you have a radio system uh linked to your drone from the ground and your your your your Skyline application manager saying um the the signal is starting to get less reliable less strength and we're going to switch over to LTE for instance well it won't drop that radio link until it has a good LTE length then when it has a good LTE length it's it's basically got both lengths it drops the radio length it goes to LTE flies with LTE for a while and then the same process happens again if the LTE link is becoming problematic but the ours are the radio frequency link looks good it'll do the same thing and switch back to radio uh the radio link um so that makes again no loss length that makes your safety case that makes it easy to get approvals whether it be

**[15:36]** the FAA or any other Aviation Authority that would Grant you approvals for things like pipeline inspection Powerline inspection search and rescue uh forest fire inspection things like that um okay go go to the next one big guy um and uh path diversity is when the radio information has more than more than one physical path to the destination and this is what we just talked about uh more with the one radio on board so so we may have an ism radio we might have a c-band radio LTE and they're all talking okay should I go back yeah no go to the next slide that's good all right yeah now this is frequency diversity which is what we just talked about uh

**[16:38]** briefly talked about but this is where we're using different types of communication satcom LTE radio waves Etc this is the path diversity multiple fast and then multiple frequencies so you're not just relying on multiple RF links or multiple cell phone links right so if you're saying well I'm just going to use all cell phone for instance all LTE that's going to be problematic in a BB law situation because great you can swap and use different carriers in different Towers but when you're in a rural area and when you're in a mountainous region you Canyon or something like that you might have no cell phone from any carriers and then that could cause a lost Link so having a satcom link and an RF link is backups or primaries just eliminates that and makes the safety case for your Regulators um thanks okay

**[17:39]** so this is this is a a visualization of skyline this is a web-based application this is what manages your radios the Telemetry of your drone between the ground radios the Airborne radios then we have what's called an adsb receiver on your left that's that's a uh that's a dual band receiver that receives ads big signals from piloted aircraft so that gives you Vision visualization this is a small graphic but you can see aircraft in here that'll show you aircraft that'll show you the direction and that'll allow other aircraft to see the Drone but just as important as a drone to see other aircraft so it can make evasive maneuvers so this is the the the detect and the void right the aesp you see the other aircraft and then you can avoid it with your

**[18:43]** mission uh computer on board or with your planning tool or your remote pilot that may be on the ground then we've integrated primary radar so for instance in North Dakota in the vanta system and in Oklahoma Choctaw Nation we've integrated primary radar so primary radar acts to detect uncooperative aircraft so here in the USA we've had an ads mandate adsb mandate that that mandated owners of light sport aircraft something like a Cessna a pipe or something like that singular singular engine aircraft that are very prominental uh prevalent in the United States for instance are required to equip with adsb that's been the Mandate for the last couple years pretty much the entire fleet is covered not Liars that might not have it so you have adsb receiver that'll get you 99 of the traffic and

**[19:46]** then you have your primary radar for uncooperative aircraft or there's other systems like Vision systems you can put on your UAV but so we're we're doing two things we're we're we're providing command and control and we're providing situational awareness of other aircrafts to avoid Collision uh go ahead to the next slide um so this is sort of important too um and this is something that if somebody uh a user comes from the industry the commercial industry they understand uh what's called uh Dow levels this is design Assurance levels this is something for like a a any kind of aircraft whether it be cargo or passenger aircraft they are certified it it does cost a lot of money to certify uh an aircraft and it'll cost a lot of money to even make the components that are certified that go on a certified aircraft so uavionics we make certified components that go on a drone

**[20:51]** and what we what we did here is we have a GPS unit which sort of looks like this right a small GPS puck but this has an FAA certification or a TSO technical standard order so if you're taking your drone and you're doing a tight certification process it can be much cheaper and time consuming if you use certified componentry so instead of using a you can sort of you could possibly get a type certification without a GPS unit that is not certified but using a TSO avionics in a certified GPS unit maybe a certified transponder maybe a certified autopilot maybe a certified radio control link makes the process of obtaining a type certification much easier so that's something we've looked at at uavionics is how do we take this

**[21:53]** industry the UAV industry and go from where it was in 2008 using bespoke components using hobby grade components using components that didn't even belong on aircraft for instance I mean there's aircraft out there there's drones out there using lawnmower engines right there's drones out there using chainsaw engines and all kinds of different things they're using they're using hobby grade servos and things like that how do we lift this industry and use Aviation grade parts so that's what we're doing so we're doing Dow level C which is a design Assurance level C which is very regular nice we're doing go 254 for the hardware that would be the the everything in the board everything the hardware is tested for all kinds of things temperature rain salt sand all kinds of intrusions and whatnot and then the software

**[22:54]** has to be uh uh certified for so for instance in the GPS unit I showed you there's software in here that that makes this a certified unit and that software has to be designed to that so going back to the radios in the BV loss system there's a couple of mops uh rtca that is the radio technical Commission on Aeronautics they set guidelines and rules so what they've done is they've got two two rules one is do362 which is a mops that means minimum operating performance standard for the hardware so what they've said is this Hardware this c-band radio needs to conform to these mobs do362a so when I said we we build these you know from the ground up that's that's that's what's what's happening it's it's taking what the rtca has published in

**[23:59]** building the hardware to that do 377a is a mass that's the minimum Aviation system performance standard that is the ecosystem which is the cloud-based ecosystem that manages the drones and this is very important with package delivery and um Urban aerial Mobility meaning if you have multiple drones in the sky delivering packages you have a system that that operates those safely that deconflicts those safely and it also communicates with the uh ATC air traffic control so um what's coming out is a TSO it's uh charlie213a that's coming out from the FAA and we will certify our radios to that and that'll be another certified building block for uas we're building these exclusively for uas on uncrewed a uh aerial vehicles and

**[25:01]** um so that is That's the basis of where our company is is in essence trying to lift the industry from where we are now to building Aviation grade components certified components and then certified aircraft that can fly in in any condition in controlled airspace near airports where where not and so we're getting there this this industry is really uh evolved a lot since I started in 2008 but it still has it still has a way to go so we're we're we have our philosophy on how we want want to help the industry move okay go ahead sir so uh yeah uh path diversity um multiple pass frequency diversity not just one type of uh system like not just a uh radio frequency not just LTE but but several different ones

**[26:04]** um and then adsb for sense in a void and then incorporating radar and different sensors like uh visual sensors and whatnot for the phone Cooperative aircraft so we're we're making a cloud-based uh network manager we call Skyline it's it's built to The do377a Masks so um it's built to the standard that's put out there okay next one um and then uh talking about waivers this is this is kind of cool and interesting anyway uh but uh you know this year January the fa approved uh our first BV loss waiver uh and we leveraged skylines Skylink in the vantus architecture that is a Statewide Network in North Dakota where they're outfitting the whole state of North Dakota with an infrastructure so users can eventually just log onto the internet and

**[27:06]** and log on to the network and just fly their drones just like you do today with a cell phone right you just you just pick it up and you go um so we got that BV loss waiver using our avionics right a combination of certified and then other avionics that aren't yet certified we have a test aircraft we used in the in the BV loss waiver and what's interesting is uh we we took a look at um there's only a handful of BB lost waivers in the United States anyway you know it's less than 40. it's between 30 and 40. and probably 90 percent of those BV loss waivers are using some technology that we've developed UV uavionics whether it be you know an autopilot or a adsb receiver or a GPS or whatnot so it's um kind of cool and then we got a second waiver uh we worked with Choctaw Nation in Oklahoma they have a uas range there and we actually [Music] um uh uh

**[28:11]** um gotta be uh Choctaw Nation received a BV loss waiver using our ecosystem as well so we're we've got two of those that we've gotten in just uh this year and um you know there's there's there's only about like I said between 30 and 40 of those have been issued in the United States since the program started so um we're sort of proud of that go ahead um these are some of the programs these are the test sites right we've got test sites or or areas where they're developing uas technology right some of these are FAA test sites here in the U.S some of these are just uh Partners we have that are testing uh uh uh different Technologies uh especially you know how do we integrate drones in an urban environment where there's a lot of traffic where there's airports where there's buildings where there's a lot of GA activity general aviation

**[29:12]** um so so Choctaw Nations doing some of that the Beyond programs doing some of that NASA's doing a lot of that uh vantus is proving out the network uh in in in the way a network would work um um and then Northern Plains is part of is sort of is is is a test site it's not part of antis but it's connected they're both in North Dakota there um Talus is the provider for vantus we are the hardware provider there we're the hardware and uh Network provided there we provide both the radios and the adsb receivers um and then the FAA we have a couple of uh projects in the FAA right now to develop a frequency allocation manager for our Skyline system um that basically uh is another another technology that allows drones to scale for instance in the package delivery

**[30:14]** situation uh each each drone that goes out to deliver a package would get assigned a a frequency for that particular flight they would go do what they need to do when they when they land they would give up that frequency it would be allocated to somebody else so we're developing that for the FAA currently um um and then there's interesting con Ops the linear inspection and delivery conops uh Malaysia I I was talking Malaysia earlier because they have integrated and mandated what's called a cnpc system in the c-band so they've kind of taken the lead in Malaysia and so cnpc is command and control no payload so what what what that does is it says we're going to have one RF radio link just for your C2 system just for your Telemetry and then your payload is going to be a second system so your camera system is not a safety of flight system it's very

**[31:19]** important to the UAV but the C2 system is going to be separated so that's a system that um the defense companies use the dod uses um it's a secure way to fly a drone and minimize lost loss of uh link or or just loss of a drone um we're doing some uh work with um some power utility companies where they're putting in networks um um and then down in Latin America we're supporting some drone delivery operations uh you know UTM and uas service companies we're we're building that ecosystem not for the not for everything that UTM does but we're going to give you this the the the command and control we're going to give you the the the the visualization of other uas so that's sort of an important part of that and then on the OEM side of course we support like I said we support um the type certification

**[32:23]** process and the BV loss waiver process uh um for that um you know the growing aam Urban aerial Mobility industry is one that is very interested in the secure network because eventually they're gonna transport you know customers people in autonomous uas with no pilot is the vision so um you have to have a very secure uh system and one that your customers can be confident in uh okay and this is just a visualization of one of our drones we have a flight crew right with the with a couple of Vans and then you can see our test drone there that's a EV tall right so it's a fixed wing with rotors pretty common configuration for a lot of operations BV loss and delivery we built that simply for our testing to test our avionics to test the performance and then in North Dakota we use it to test installation so if we put an installation then we'll test it by flying the Drone

**[33:27]** around the insulation see if there's any interference or something like that so really building a network is is sort of complex and takes a lot of dedication then a lot of testing to make sure it's it's right because you don't want to have any holes in the situation but I think that might be the last slide is yep excellent so thank you uh so much Joe so I think um like we had a huge amazing audience so we have lined up with the Q A's right first of all I would like to thank you Joe so again um I'm pretty sure it was uh like a it might have benefited uh the all uh audience like in order to conduct their BB loss operations right so now we would like to again open up a house uh for the round of Q and A's right so let me just quickly see where are we on that so I can see like there are a couple of questions coming up with it so let me start with like some of them so how about a satellite

**[34:30]** detection Network so that was asked in the chat section but yeah this is from start so joke I'm not a hundred percent sure I understand that question so I believe he's asking more of since we are talking about RF uh like right the radio frequencies how about how the satellite detection network works so we've we're integrating a couple satellite yeah networks some of the the ones we all know about we're exploring uh you know iridium and starlink and and some of those um so basically we would have well you'll see a satellite module um hear from us in the spring uh it'll be another satcom module on the UAV and um you know you could use that as a failover basically if you lose one link it'll it'll fail over to the satcom link um satellite tends to be sort of um expensive so

**[35:36]** maybe you want to use this sparingly so there's a way to facilitate so it's a backup but you're not always using it so you can save some costs if that answers the question yeah yes yes okay so moving on to the next one so there was a question around like uh do you also have a security Assurance for EU 2019 945 regulation C Mark Etc so did you get that Joe for EU yeah I don't see that question but yeah um we're working in Europe um let me just see if I can see that question so it's in Q a you can definitely yeah more off yeah I mean we have we have representatives in Europe and we probably have this c-band your system set up in about six or seven countries in Europe right now so

**[36:37]** um I I don't know if I'm actually completely familiar with those regulations so I'm not going to get a good answer but you know you can get a hold of me and I can get back to them right so uh I think there was one more question with the uh with respect to uh the Radio setup right so how do we add in multiple radios for better Communications in our aircrafts well I mean we have a we have a module for multiple radios this is this is one of the LTE modules so this has got an ism radio and an LTE radio so that's that it could be as small as this this is like 70 grams uh and this this manages the link between LTE and and uh ISM for instance if you added you would have to add a second radio like a c-band radio this this is a full power radio and then you have three radios and then of course the satcom module and then on the ground you have ground radios so so this is one of our c-band ground radios right this gets

**[37:42]** attached to a pole maybe 40 or 50 feet in there and that is connected to the web so so for instance in North Dakota each of our systems has a adsb receiver a a ground radio and then it's web connected so Skyline the network manager we talked about would be where the naval cloud enabled which is an advantage it's hosted uh it's web hosted it records all flight data so think about this if you did have an accident where something happening you had a drone crash all your flight data is recorded so that way um if the FAA does an investigation or any other civil aviation Authority in another country does an investigation it's much easier to get to a root cause you know you know what happened you you can you can either blame the network or say no it wasn't the network it was a hardware failure like a motor as you can see or something like that so that's kind of the

**[38:42]** advantage of that okay so I I think there's another questions uh with respect to the use case of the hardware so I mean it I I know like you have already explained this in the slide but could you please again explain uh if your technology can be used uh for remote mapping or wind turbine kind of inspection for this kind of use case yeah we we can I mean like I like I I talked to you uh earlier we separate the the the C2 system from the payload system So currently our system is just providing the Telemetry for the Drone um whether so so you would have a second system for video um we're looking at maybe adding another system for video but right now um we're we're building that CNP system cnpc system because it's a standard like like I talked about from the rtca um so so in theory you'd have a second system with video and then those can all be

**[39:45]** merged I mean currently we use Mission planner uh which is an open source Mission planning software that's what that's that's what we're using and so you could you could add your video feed to that so there's a way to do that and if we come up with a product in the future that could that could also be something right right now we're just doing inflammatory Joe you talked about uh the uh the cloud platform that you're gonna work on right with the whole set of solutions so what do you like uh think about or is are are there any applications through or I would say are there any apis or any kind of uh sdks that will be available for the third party app Integrations for your devices yeah it'll integrate I mean right now we're we're doing uh strictly a cloud-based integration uh subscription-based integration but we're working on other options so yeah yeah we would have those things too yeah it's it's a pretty

**[40:47]** new system I mean the masks were sort of uh approved they're on version a so once we got that we started working with the uh with the hardware and then develop developing that cloud-based application um it's fairly sophisticated now just in the last six or seven months we've added to it and then we've got customers wanting to use it in different ways so we're doing redundant systems duplicate systems things like that um um and then also uh support some of your high altitude applications like your high altitude pseudo satellite uavs that fly from five months at a time and beam down satellite or LTE or whatnot so um the use cases are expanding and it just you know how this industry is when you think you know all the use cases another one pops up so so yeah right so uh I think uh let's I think let's take last two questions right so we talked about C2 uh frequency right C2 frequency band so we'll like there is a question uh from the

**[41:52]** customer so will the CT will the C2 frequency band Spectrum be available for long distance UAV and are there any altitude constraints yeah I mean I mean we they are made for long distance but they're but the but the c-band is a line of sight radio so you have distance issues because of mountains or even the curvature of the Earth in the curvature of the earth actually comes in at about I don't know 15 20 kilometers so um so that's why you would have multiple ground radios in a linear inspection type application um to to facilitate that I mean we we've we had to take uh in Montana we flew this the ground radio in assassinas are about ten thousand feet uh so we just test the distance of the radio and we got about 150 kilometers before we kind of ran out of room but so they're very long distance so like when I talk about the High

**[42:53]** Altitude applications where you have perfect line of sight that that that's a really good application without any kind of a repeater if you need longer distances then you're going to have to do multiple radios and let it let it roam like like I described on Skyline from one another so I would say the last question so could you also please uh share your thoughts on the open div approach where uh like each company contributes to the different layer of drone autonomy Stacks right what are its benefits and how can it help us grow the industry yeah I I mean there's there's certain things we don't do uh autonomy is one and uh um so we don't do uncooperative right now so that that's another technology but we don't we don't really do autonomy we support autonomy right we support it right but we don't do autonomy we don't we do we uh we detect aircraft but we don't have

**[43:59]** the the the software the algorithm to do the detect and avoid we don't have a flight computer that doesn't detect and avoid so that the the avoid Maneuvers anyway we detect but we don't we don't do that so there's certain things that we just don't do as a company we definitely want to partner with folks with uh things like uh com systems for payload and integrating with different types of payloads um and then we partner all the time um so if we have a good con Ops uh concept of operation or use case we really we're pretty proactive of wanting to partner with folks um right important use case so yeah that's that's that's an exciting place we'd like to partner and help help people move the industry right so with that I will be closing the event for now but yeah thank you so much Joe I think I personally learned a lot more in more terms of while talking to customers while talking to end users how can I help them with the PV loss approvals

**[45:03]** and all right so again I probably love to chat with you anytime again but I I believe it's the same a feeling for the uh speak like the audience right so I mean I would like to close but uh would you like to share any uh closing thoughts for this event for the session no no I I I you know vinyaka I appreciate you guys reached out to us we uh um this is really a good opportunity for us there's a lot of activity outside of the United States we're finding out and uh maybe in some cases more activity especially in commercial operations so um it's good to connect with people outside the United States as well um so much appreciated right so okay thank you so much uh Joe thank you um audience right thank you all for joining us today hope uh like you have a great time at Legend so let us know how you found the sessions in the comments in the chat so again again coming up next there

**[46:05]** are networking sessions and booths so guys please do visit that okay thank you Joe thank you sir have a good day