# BFFs of BVLOS: ADS-B & C2 Network's Role in Autonomous Drone Adventures - Event: Xpress ’23 - Published: October 4, 2023 - Length: 14:18 - Watch: https://nestgen.org/library/watch/dFt7uEd64rw/ > The transcript of a recorded NestGen session, for reading or for use with an AI tool. It comes from the video's > captions; automatic captions can mishear names and terms. ## About this session Join this exciting session from the NestGen Xpress where you'll dive deep into a conversation with Christian Ramsey from uAvionix. In this session they talked about the pivotal roles of ADS-B and C2 control in the drone world and understand their transformative impact on the safety and capabilities of autonomous drones. Navigate the challenges of integrating these technologies and learn about the innovative multi-frequency solutions. Most notably, uncover the groundbreaking FAA exemption secured by uAvionix, a game-changer that sets the stage for more streamlined BVLOS (Beyond Visual Line of Sight) operations, propelling the drone industry forward. To learn more about FlytBase visit here: To know more about uAvionix: ## Transcript **[0:04]** Hello everybody. It's Thursday morning , Commercial UAV Expo, and today is going to be a lot of fun. We've had a great experience at Nester&Express so far, and I hope, and I'm sure, that our next guest will be just as amazing as all the others so far. I'm very happy to be here with Christian Ramsey from UAV Avionics. That makes sense. UAV Avionics, and we'll talk about ADSB and C2, command and control. Let's talk about a few things. But you know what? You already know me, right? Let's start with something a little funny. Just to unwind a little. Let's have a brief conversation about what you offer at UAV Avionics. And we have some news that we're going to talk about, and I'm really excited about it. I love bringing new things to our audience. It's going to be great. So, I'm curious. I'll start with this question. I know you didn't want to, but we're going to do it anyway. Let's think about this for a moment. It will be great. I'm a big fan of **[1:07]** comedy. I love the SmartLess podcast. It's simply incredible. So, if ADSB and C2 were a comedy duo, what would their stage name be ? I mean, we have so many great comedy duos out there. What would their stage name be? Oh my God, I don't know. You didn't give me a chance to read the questions, and I did n't see them. So, it's not my fault. And I'm not very good at improvising when it comes to that. I wouldn't be a good stand-up comedian. Let's see. ADSB will provide the function of notifying everyone that they are there. Okay. It's like honking a horn. Blaster. Okay. You understand. Honking or Ok. And the command and control part is the master. Master blaster. There you go. There you go. It saw? It saw? It wasn't difficult. It was very easy. Okay, cool. Too much. Okay, cool. Too much. Alright, let's analyze it then. Okay, now let's ask a very serious question. Okay, so how does ADS-B **[2:08]** contribute to safer BVLOS operations ? Well, ADS-B is effectively the system that will tell you where all the aircraft are in the airspace. Yes, more or less. All good? Right? Uncooperative. Ah, nobody likes uncooperative people. Except, of course, for the uncooperative ones. So, what a brilliant system, right? I mean, this already existed before the world of drones exploded. For sure. Right? So, this was a system implemented by the FAA and regulators to say, "Hey, everyone who 's flying an airplane in certain airspaces, put this technology on, let's play fair and avoid each other." It's not a key technology for drones to be able to understand these signals and say, "Hey, there's a plane. I should get out of the way." Right? So, that's the fundamental role that ADS-B plays. In the world of ADS-B, there is a difference between what is called ADS-B out and ADS-B in. Okay. ADS-B out means you **[3:12]** are transmitting that signal. ADS-B in means that you are receiving that signal. Especially in the world of drones, you're receiving that signal. Of course, there are some exceptions of aircraft that fly with ADS-B out. Right ? Mostly military, mostly large. Sure, big things. So, they fly much higher. But, you know, ADS-B in is very easy. It can be available as a chipset or module and is super easy to add to your detection solution. Yes. And I'll let them wait for the announcement at the end. But let's go. Let's move on to the next question. So, are there challenges or limitations to incorporating or integrating ADS-B and C2 into real-world applications? What are the challenges? Yes, I mean, there are different challenges for everyone, right? And the challenges I was referring to were the non-cooperative parties, right? It's the people who don't use ADS-B in these airspaces where it would certainly be beneficial and make our lives easier when flying our drones if everyone **[4:14]** else were using it. So, you can easily implement ADS-B. I mean, we're not the only manufacturer of ADS-B systems. There are many ADS-B receptors out there. Very easily. You need to be aware that in the US we use two different frequencies. The rest of the world doesn't use it. So, many of the systems that exist out there use only one frequency. So, if you chose a system from outside the US, you might always see high traffic. Interesting. Okay. So, this is a fundamental challenge to consider. From a command and control standpoint , it is very important to understand the limitations of each frequency or type of radio you use. So, if you're flying in a metropolitan area, LTE or 5G can be very good options. If you are flying over an agricultural area, in a rural part of the USA, the signal may be very weak and poor. You don't want the connection to drop, right? Therefore, you need to figure out how to structure all of this mitigation. So, you choose another option, and that's what we offer as a **[5:19]** multi-frequency solution, where you can integrate LTE, ISM frequency, C-band, or even SATCOM as a complete layered solution. And that's one thing, you know, I'd say to be careful about the idea of ​​ getting stuck with just one single option, right? Make a backup. It makes sense. Yes, the whole industry has this mentality that "one is the same as none". Yes. Mindset. Yes. Yes. Then, that makes sense. This aligns with the safety and mitigation mindset we should already have. So, that makes sense. Fantastic. So, these two separate technologies, how do they work together to enhance the capabilities of autonomous drones? Yes. Yes. Well, we like to say that " UAV ionics" is a motto that we promote a lot. Our internal motto is to connect everything that flies. Whether it's a high- altitude balloon, a commercial jet, a small drone, advanced air mobility, or a solar-powered aircraft, they need to communicate with each other to avoid collisions. Yes. We need to become cooperative, **[6:21]** even if it's not through ADSB. What else, right? We can do this through C2, ADSB, or other technologies that may emerge in the future. These are V2V and V2X type technologies that allow these drones to communicate with each other. So, if you imagine that there could be a terrestrial network of ADSB systems and ground-based radars, right? That detect other aircraft in the area; For an autonomous drone where there is no human in control, this information needs to reach the aircraft somehow, right? And this is managed through the C2 system. So, you have ground-based detection and diversion feeding the C2 system through the C2 system: "Hey, you have an aircraft at 3 o'clock 1 mile away." And then the system can autonomously decide: " I'm going to make a turn." I'm going to throw in a little bit of this—this is a question of mine, out of personal interest. So, is there a way to integrate, or a path to potentially integrate, Remote ID **[7:23]** into these C2 networks? It certainly exists. And we, and we've done that too. The problem is... Ah, I know the other problem. very short range. Yes. Right there. And then, uh, you might have a few seconds to make a maneuver. Okay. Of course. It's a start. It's a start. Okay. Well, there's, you know, the concept of Remote ID by broadcast, which is what we have today, which, you know, can be the concept of network Remote ID , which is, there's a system on the ground collecting this information. Okay. And so yes, that makes a lot of sense. Okay. That's the way to extend your reach. Yes . Okay. Yes, I mean, because every drone pilot who has ever flown anywhere has horror stories, and I have several of my own, where a crop duster plane or a highway patrol helicopter flies below my drone, and this happens all the time. And you're like, "Well, I guess, I guess I 'll go up." Like, going up seems safer right now. So, yes. Hmm, I actually have a photo of a **[8:24]** Texas Highway Patrol helicopter that flew over a mining site adjacent to I-10 and just appeared out of nowhere behind a building, and I didn't have time to react. Zero time. So, I took a picture. I was taking a picture at the time and I have a photo of the helicopter underneath the drone. Yes, and I was at NASA's first UTM demonstration. I think it was in 2015, right? Several companies showed up and we were all testing different UTM capabilities. Somewhere in Liverpool. Somewhere in California. I don't remember where it was. A crop-dusting plane brought everything to a standstill. The entire event was coordinated by NASA for 3 hours while it sprayed a nearby field. Yeah, you're like, "Sorry, guys. I know, like, I could see you. I had no idea you were there." Like, yeah, and it's interesting. Yes. No, I totally agree. This is definitely a problem. So, I mean, let's jump to some of the most cutting-edge advancements in ADSB and C2 that you at Onyx are offering and that we should be looking forward to. Yes. Well, **[9:26]** let's talk about C2, particularly in this area. So, we have a system called Skyline that, as I mentioned before, allows you to choose a set of radio frequencies for your aircraft, right? And you might want to use four different frequencies, which I mentioned: satellite, LTE, ISM, and C-band. But you don't want to integrate four different radios into your autopilot. This will confuse your autopilot, right? There are many wires. Yes, that looks like a lot of wires. What we have is a module called Multilink. And the Multilink system itself always consists of two radios. So it's LTE plus something else. So, we have a single box, LTE plus C-band or LTE plus... I have them. I have them. Okay. We don't have a satcom box. Not yet . But you always have both of these in a box. And then, from that box, you can connect other radios to it. Okay. Your autopilot just thinks you 're talking to a single radio. Never. Ah. The Multilink module is managing the switching. Everything is **[10:30]** fine. The modules, right? Integrating with your autopilot is super easy. You don't need to complicate things, write open-source code, or get into all that mess, right? But it's a really innovative and elegant way to install systems, multiple systems, and make it very easy for me to integrate them in this way. Exceptional. Yes. Okay. So, we've been teasing some kind of announcement for a while now. So, I'll just leave it to Christian. What is it? Is it something about a certification? Well, it's an exemption. Exemption? Exemption. Okay. Yesterday, the FAA approved our exemption for operations beyond visual line of sight. Okay. Using the ground-based infrastructure that we support and build in North Dakota. We did this with partners, with Thales, we did this with the state of North Dakota and their DOT network to develop this infrastructure. And why is this important? Yes, there are many authorizations, and often authorization and exemption are used interchangeably. Sometimes. But they are not. They are not. They are not. No. So an authorization is a type of one-time event. An exemption is a regulatory process. The **[11:30]** exemption means that the FAA has reviewed and accepted this as acceptable infrastructure for beyond-line-of-sight flights. And the next person who shows up wanting to fly in North Dakota, when requesting an exemption, will say: "I'm going to use the technology you've already approved through an exemption." "And that speeds up the whole process." Okay, so this really sets the sector up for growth. And we can take that infrastructure and move it anywhere, right? It doesn't have to be North Dakota, right? But that's where I...that's where the exemption was. So, we're excited about that. I mean, it took two years for this to come to fruition. Congratulations. You know, many, many hours of flight. North Dakota gets cold sometimes. Could it be. Right? So, we did a lot... I spent some time in Minot. I understand. Until the very last...you know, the last bits of autumn, when there's snow on the ground. Yes, we are very proud of that. Well, congratulations again. This is a huge... All of these seem incremental, but in reality they are giant steps that propel our sector to where we want to go. And that 's huge. **[12:35]** Yes, and that's why we're very proud. There are four other exemptions in progress. Three...three were approved. Zip Line, UPS, Phoenix Air. Right? The difference between our exemption and theirs is that their exemption was for them, for their operation. Right? Our exemption applies to the sector, right? Yes , it's for our infrastructure. Of course. But it's not for our own operations. We have approval to fly beyond line of sight because we had to be the first to request it. Okay. We don't fly except to test the system. Okay. I'm delivering packages. We are not inspecting oil pipelines. That's not our business. But... other people, people in this room who want to go to North Dakota, now have an easy path to follow. So , we are proud to be contributing in this way. Ah, and that, now that's a big deal. And I think the rest of the industry will understand this too, because now they can build upon it. I think that's where the power of collaboration and partnerships has not only brought us this far , but can also take the sector to the next level. And **[13:37]** unlike a dismissal, again, right? All details are published. Yes. So, you just want to take the recipe and create your own. Now you have a recipe. That...that's incredible. Well, I admire your effort. Like, you and Alex did a really, really good job. Even though I had to do it in North Dakota. It's a good thing you didn't have to do that during the winters. They are terribly cold. Hmm, but that 's it. No, I think that's...that's incredible. Hmm, and that's...that's the end of the interview. I just wanted to thank you so much for participating with me. Hmm. Thank you for having me. It was really great. And join us for the next episode, NextGen Express, live from the Commercial UAV Expo. See you next time. Until later. Thanks. Thanks, Chris. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.