# Five Realities of Scaling BVLOS Operations in Europe, from SORA 2.5 to U-space - Event: NestGen ’26 - Published: October 2, 2026 - Length: 38:52 - Watch: https://nestgen.org/library/watch/JuRzy4SpDT8/ > The transcript of a recorded NestGen session, for reading or for use with an AI tool. It comes from the video's > captions; automatic captions can mishear names and terms. ## About this session Operators scaling BVLOS drone operations across Europe face a regulatory landscape that's shifting fast, from SORA 2.5 risk assessments to U-space integration requirements. Turning a permitted pilot into a repeatable, multi-site program means navigating rules that vary by country and still change year to year. In this NestGen session, Drone Architect will share five realities of scaling BVLOS drone operations in Europe, and what operators should think through when moving from single approvals to programs that scale. ## Transcript **[0:00]** Hello everyone. Uh welcome back to another very interesting session here at Nesgjen. Uh do let us know in the chat where you're joining in from. Uh by the way I am Bishali. I'm going to be your host for this session and today we are going to be talking about flying BV loss and that is where essentially autonomous drone operations really start to make sense. It is also where you know Europe as well as rest of the world's rules and regulations get complicated very fast. In Europe there are so many different kinds of ways in which you can go ahead and get your permissions via LUC's STS scenarios use and the and it's so different in every country even within the EASA regulations. And our next guest is the person uh which most operators would make a phone call to make sense for all of it. So please join me in welcoming **[1:02]** uh Yan. He is the founder of an aerospace engineer, a researcher, a BV loss pilot and the person who trains the aviation authorities themselves. Uh honestly that's a lot of business cards for one person and we were just having a chat and um Yan was just sharing how busy he is these days. Uh Yan has also spent more than 16 years in the drone industry with the PhD in unmanned systems and uh as the founder of the firm drone architect he builds the regulatory dosiers that get complex operations flying legally across Europe. Also another very interesting uh note that even back in 2020 long before this became a conversation that all of us are having today. He was getting a drone in a box systems up and running at city mesh for emergency response across Belgium. That was one of the kind visionary projects back then. And today he is here to walk us through the five realities of **[2:05]** scaling BV loss operations in Europe. And these are five genuine realities that are going to be very helpful and will save you a lot of time from having to untangle all of Europe's regulation from scratch and will give you a real good head start. But before I pass it over to Yon to get started, I have a quick um a few housekeeping rules. So please do feel free to type any questions in the Q&A chat box uh during the session as as in when you want you want want to answer to some uh question we will get to them at the end. Uh the session is also being recorded and we will be publishing it soon. And finally uh last note is if you find any moments from the session or any interesting insight from the presentation do capture a screenshot uh shot and share them uh on LinkedIn using Nesgen uh hashtag. A few lucky people might have a surprise in store. With that a very warm welcome yon. The floor is yours. So **[3:09]** I'll just stop sharing my screen and you can present and we're ready whenever you are. Hi everyone. Um I hope you can hear me well. Uh thank you Bali for the good introduction. That saves me already a slide and we don't have much time. So I'll talk about five problems that we see today um from a regulatory point of view and how we can let's say circumn but also what is in store or what is probably coming in the next few years that might also uh improve the situation. Um so I'll just dive right in. Um and the first problem we have is that one operation has three answers. So uh one of my clients for instance has an operation authorization uh it's flying be in sparsely populated areas and uncontrolled airspace and **[4:10]** controlled airspace L2 and um we just asked the then Germany France and the Netherlands for okay what have we come across what have we come over what are the the requirements for doing across cross border right then in Germany they say fine no problem but you have to wait six months uh in France they say Yes, but you know uh per location you need 10 weeks in advance because you have to not only ask the federal government, the federal CA, but also you have to ask for the lo local government 10 weeks in advance to have a a zone where you can do that. And in the Netherlands they say no. So in sparsely populed airspace we do not allow it. So it's only atypical or it's only controlled airspace. Uh but then it's quite fast. So for V-lo those issues don't already exist. But when you go be loss, it just becomes a lot more difficult. And most of these issues are airrisk related. All right. Um, so **[5:10]** that's the problem. How do you find out? By sending mails to HCA. That's the main problem. There's no nice web page every time with all the relevant information for doing a cross border. You always have to get information from everywhere. Send emails. Uh I've sent multiple emails each with dozens of questions to each of these CAS just to figure out how [clears throat] I could go about doing cross border and it's not just that it is that also geosones for instance are completely different there's no really a standard geosones um we know CTRs but even CTRs can be completely different some of them are divided in zones others are not some of them require radar uh license others are not um one example example is a hospital. So not just a hospital but a hospital with a helipad. Um in Germany every hospital is a no-fly zone. In Belgium only the hospitals with the helipad are no fly zone with a radius of a half nautical mile. In the Netherlands they do the same but it's only for open **[6:14]** category and it's a 1200 meters. So that's not a half nautical mile it's it's more. And then in France, they just list 94 buildings that have a no-fly zone and that's it. So whatever you're doing and you want to go to another country, the workflow changes quite drastically. Every time you have to re rethink about what are all the different geosones, even if they have a map with all the geo zones, you have to go through each type of them that might be relevant to you because you don't just want to fly in one location. You want to scale up and fly in multiple locations. So you need to understand that workflow a lot and understanding that workflow and the limitations per country that is quite some work. So uh one of the advices is to get legal compliance support and preferably from somebody from that country hey or go through your own one and then they partner with a with a local compliance support firm. Uh because finding out that workflow alone is takes a month easily. uh **[7:16]** especially if you want to scale, you're going to start basing your business plan on top of that uh on on that workflow. Uh find trying to find new clients, things like that. So it is something, you know, homework that you need to do uh before you go there. So you really have to send emails to all the national CAS to just ask about this and that and that and a radio license in the Netherlands. Can we get one? If we have one in Belgium, can we use that one? No, we cannot. Okay, then we need another radio license training. So all these kind of things you don't find out until you really ask them. U and that just takes time. Uh sometimes they just give incomplete answer. Then you say, "Okay, but your website says this and your answer says that. What is now the problem?" So it really is a back and forth kind of conversation. Um, so if you want to go fast, because that is sometimes the question I get from clients is that I I I have a client, he's he has another site. It's in the Netherlands. I **[8:17]** want he needs me to fly an inspection fly next week or in in two weeks or in four weeks. And then we go there and go, okay, well, yes, but this and that and that. Um, if you want to do it fast, find yourself a local drone operator that has the same authorization and can do the flight for you or put your personnel under their authorization. That is also just an administrative change that could really help you and be more fast than than going about using cross borders or LUC's or things like that. um if it is let's say more one-off solutions and in the meantime you have time to figure it out. Uh one of the things that the Aza is proposing is to publish national conditions per country. So those are basically just an overview document that shows you what are all the things you need to know about flying in another country that is in the same format each format each time. So, it's not been approved yet, but is something they're discussion discussing and I think that it would be a really good **[9:20]** idea to uh limit the amount of work to understand how to fly in another country. Um, the second problem is data site survey and flight preparation data. It is really different in each country. There's no source online that is the available in each country. Every country sometimes do not or do have that and the the rules for accessing those geo zones and again become very different. Um for soda 2.5 Yaza has published um a population density map that you can use to calculate your initial ground score which is great. you have all these grid size grids of 200 by 200 and in Belgium we don't have that. We only have 125 times 125 meters. So it doesn't really scale that easily. Um, so you can do that for your IGRC. But then imagine as a PE loss bite, you have a very big action radius **[10:23]** like five kilometers, a circle of 5 km around your docking station, something like that. And then you have these grids, these small grid cells, and they ask you what is the maximum value for your IGRC. Well, you cannot click on thousands of cells just to figure out which one is the maximum. You need some kind of software to do that. But the map is not offline yet. The database it's built on is 100 by 100. So they extrapolated it to 200 by 200 but the the way it's not clear. So we we have this just practical issue is how do we do that for large uh action ranges. How do we do that for multiple locations each and every time in a generic way you know in a generic workflow that scales. The same thing is with containment and that's even worse because there they require you to take the average of a five kilometer buffer around your uh contingency volume. Which means that if you have a 5 km circle or a little bit more, you're talking about tens of thousands of cells that you need to take the **[11:25]** average of just to figure out in which containment uh level you fall. you you need dedicated software to do that. And to have dedicated software to do that, you need the map of Aaza, which is still a draft version to be readily available and and and usable, practical, uh which is not really the case always. So for one location, small uh flight area, fine. You can do it manually, but when you scale up and go bigger and bigger and and have longer range speed loss drones, it just becomes impractical if you don't do it through software. Um, the EU also has now a central geoone map which is supposed to show all the geosones across entire Europe which is great but only a few countries are actually already linked to that map. So most countries are still empty and you still need to go to their national official geoone map. For Belgium it's drone guide for it's a dool in in Germany. So it's different ones. **[12:25]** The access conditions are also non-uniform for some of them like um if you go for nature reserves there's no clear access conditions like there's there's something like try to fly as high as possible things like that but you need to ask permission to somebody and you don't know what is who's going to be that you have to do it one by one but there's a lot of very small nature reserves uh in Europe um but also databases is like where are we call it the visel sites which are like very critical infrastructure in the sense of that they're explosive sensitive like all oil and chemical indust industrial sites you can't just fly there but you need to know where they are when you do a flight plan so you can either avoid them or work with them to coordinate your emergency response plan so you need to know where they are in other countries in Belgium we have a central database but in other countries they don't um **[13:26]** tall obstacles. So your national uh information provider like in Belgium is skies there's there's there's other traffic information services uh they in and the AIP they they can sometimes list all obstacles but there's much more right uh when you want to plot uh your your flight geography you want to know where all the obstacles are the ones which are high enough the ones that you need to program as a no-fly zone so you can fly around them you can do fixed traje trajectories of course and then it's very easy. But if you want flexibility, you want an area in which you can freely fly about and wherein the obstacles are already defined as no fly zones. That makes it more scalable, more freedom, especially when you have um a need to go somewhere really fast, but not through a fixed trajectory. And if your area is not just an industrial site, but you're talking about a complete city for first response, then you want to make it again more scalable, more generic, more freedom. Uh and **[14:30]** that is when it takes more and more time to start of mapping everything in your area of what you need to know about where where you can fly, what not. If you fly through that zone, you might need to call somebody first, things like that. So that needs to be clear. Um so in general try to do the online survey as much as possible first right try to find all the databases that are available and then try to automate that and then you can go on site and just figure out what is the difference that you're still missing. That's a much faster way than you start going up to site and then just looking where is everything, how large it is, how do I measure it, can I find it back on something? Um things like that. So, uh, Google satellite maps and, uh, you know, the Google 3D where the the where the the vehicle has driven through showing you 3D pictures of the environment. Those are a good start, uh, for for doing this remote uh, site service for a client that is another country which you haven't **[15:35]** really physically visited yet. Uh, but at least you can have an idea of how it looks like that environment. And you need to be able to answer the question as soon as possible. Can I even fly there? Otherwise, there's no point of going to them and proposing something which you cannot deliver. Um, so is trying to figure out more central maps that you know gives more data, but there's still a lot of them that is unclear, especially nature reserves. Uh, you either have to ask the forest guy otherwise or a local authority. Some say yes, others say no. Uh, it's really different. And it's not just that. It's the same with helports. Uh we have situations where where one heliport is asking €200 per flight and the other one is asking €20 and it's requires nothing. Then the first one again requires you to have a radio license and listening to the VHF radio. So it it is really nonuniform uh and that should be improved further in the future. **[16:37]** How do you get a crossber approval? you know there's multiple routes to go there uh but each one has it advantages and disadvantages so the most basic one is a standard scenario right standard scenario is something you do you write your operations manual and your standard scenario elements you put it in there you declare to your national CA you get a declaration of conformity and then they say go and prosper um and then you can start flying everywhere and it's really really fast and also across the border is actually quite fast because you just need to uh declare to that other national authority when you do the cross border where do you want to fly and the way you do it and it doesn't matter if it's an LC cross border sort of PD or an SDS you need to file a flight plan of what you're going to do where you're going to fly what is going to fly how high when um what is the area what are the buffers for ground tr it's always the same the only difference is is that per country the source of your **[17:39]** information might be different, right? So your flight plan template and your methods and your sources, they should be made per country. So if you want to fly in multiple countries, make one for each country so you can reuse it each and every time in the same way. Uh and and where in your in every row that you need to fill in, there's actually already instructions that say what to do. You go to that website, you click on this filter, then you do this and that and that and you fill in that value here. Done. That is what you want. You know, practical flight plans that you can do and even if it's been three months since you th it for that country, you're right again into the workflow that you know what you need to do. Um, also your operations manual then yeah make it modular. Some procedures will be different in one country than the others. Well, those procedures divide them in annexes for each country and from your OM just refer per country to the correct annex in the right place in your operations manual. **[18:40]** So if it's if it's just a few sporadic flights uh that is fine and the SDS is fast but of course you're restricted to standard scenario one and two. So that that is basically control ground areas which is not always the case. Even if you want to fly a security for a or inspections for industrial site, there's actually people walking around. It's not as easy to just get permission from everyone. RCA actually in Belgium requires you to have individual documents where they sign with their own signature per person that they are agreed to be involved person otherwise it's not control ground area. It's sparsely populated or might even be populated. Then if you go one level up which gives you more flexibility in in what you can do especially in Bulos then you go to Sora P and you do that as a cross border. First of all not every PD is accepted by another national authority. So usually Sora might even be the best way. Pedra G03 might also be a solution but also again there's some **[19:43]** differences in in interpretation. But that means that you first need your permit then you need to apply to the other one with your flight plan. you need to adapt your operations manual for that country with some of the procedures. They apply they look at it and that takes two to six months. If you if you're in Germany, they say six plus months. So it's even on their website. So it's basically don't even try. It's going to take at least six months before we even look at it. And then of course you have an LU which is for most people the holy grail. What people forget is that an LU is actually based upon a Sora or P or SDS that you already have, right? It's not because you have an LU that you can just create your new ones with with whatever drone or whatever uh location or whatever change in a risk or ground test that you want. That's not the case. uh you are allowed to do variations of one but you need to do at least one of them that is completely **[20:44]** evaluated in detail by your CA and getting an LUC is easily a process that takes up to a year after you already have your existing permit so it's not something you can do right from the start you need to get your first permits a good permit the one that you can use the one that is usable across countries as well if you're looking international and then you have to take into account that it's another six month another year before you can get the LU because there's a six month trial period inside of it where you just need to fly using your existing permit and prove that you can properly do it. Uh but then once you have it of course if you go to cross border it's much faster. So it's not just a notify and fly that's also a misunderstanding. It's not because your soda allows you in your country just to do that. That you just say I'm going to fly there in France and tell the France CA that I don't care about you say I have an Luc. I'm going to fly there. I'm going to do it in two weeks and you just have nothing to say about it. That is not true. They can **[21:45]** still block you for several reasons. So you still need to do your homework. Um but it's faster because they check less. If you do crossber sort of PDA, they have to re-evaluate your entire sort and P that takes much more time. So it is faster. So it is a it is a solution. So it's for you. You have to ask yourself from my business plan for my intentions for what I want to do in other countries what is best for me shortterm long-term. Um and the problem with cross borders um is that it's precise at the moment which means that for every new location you want to fly in another country than your own you need to again submit that location that takes time right time you do not always have uh or you need to bundle applications then the next one I'm sorry for going so fast but it's just a limited amount of time uh the next one is the Sora 5 for BV loss, there's actually a bit of a risk that **[22:48]** what you can do today and sale two might actually end up in sale three. So, it's important for you to try to figure out what your future business plans are and in which sale level they will fall uh so you know where you need to aim for because you cannot just buy a drone and then say afterwards, oh, I need this kind of sale level and to the manufacturer just give me that. That's not the case. You know, you need to figure out what you need before you invest. You need to do the plan first before you invest. You can actually get a permit before you actually buy your first drone. You just need to tell them what drone it is. You don't actually need the drone. You can just afterwards give them the serial number and it's fine. In Belgium, they don't even need the serial number. They give you one. You can just swap drones with your supplier and for for spares. They don't care. You just they just do it. you just need to know what model it is, you know. Um, so it is something you need to look at. Uh, there's a little bit of more information on the slides which I can't always go **[23:50]** through. Uh, but it is something you can definitely look in the recording later on on at your own pace. Uh, so don't buy the drone first. Just look at your permit, do your homework, do a regulatory analysis, what you need, what you for your business plan to work, and then buy the drone. And not just that, don't just buy the drone. Ask the manufacturer first for all the documentation that you need to get that permit because in a lot of cases, they don't actually have it. It's not the first time that drones have been grounded or that somebody has a drone sitting idle in its office because the documentation that is necessary for the parachute or the means of compliance with FDS and N containment or just the EUCE certificate is not there. you as an operator have nothing. You can't do anything, right? You're just in the middle of the manufacturer and the CA arguing with each other about what they kne or don't need. Um, so that is that is different. But Aza is working towards that in the future and we're talking about the next few years. they are trying to shift the **[24:54]** workload more to the manufacturers whereby they will need to provide the evidence directly to CAS and and just do it before they can actually get you know any type of certificate that would be actually best. There might even even be a third party assessment for each model that comes on the European market uh just to check if everything is in order and if what they claim they have like medium parachute robustness or enhanced containment is actually true because there is some difference between reality and paperwork sometimes and one CA looks at it a little bit more deeply than others. So that's a a difference. The main issue with beos is arisk. I'm sorry, I only have three minutes. Um, air risk is the main issue. It's not just a ground risk. It's where can I fly? How can I fly? And and you know, how do you see everyone? What is acceptable? What is an acceptable traffic information service in Beverly? Most people fly in arc B uh at **[25:56]** sale 2, which means you need to see 50% of the of the traffic. But how do some of CAS actually came up with the question even he as said how do you know you can see 50% if you can't see 100% 100% of the traffic how do you know you reach the 50%. we just say well it's common sense but it's actually not acceptable as a as an official evidence so we need to figure that out right and then they say okay well use space is a solution and they even proposed use level one which most drone associations actually and myself are opposed against uh because it still requires a certified traffic information service certification of the traffic information service is the actual bottleneck together with the cost of why usepace is not there yet it's just not business-wise viable at this time because there's not enough flights and if there's not enough flights you don't need to use space so you're kind of in between right so in Belgium we've been actually been working on how to figure it out uh we've do drone architect we have done actually a study for the BCA **[27:01]** uh based on drone data of of of uh of the last few years uh where we actually uh could prove that we don't all the background traffic like the V-lo traffic the the drone drones below 250 g that don't have remote ID, we don't care about it. The risk of actually having a collision is like once in 7,000 years, we don't really need to see that. We do need to see each other be veloc operators. If we can figure that out, that is good. So, we just need to share a traffic information service. Doesn't need to be certified. It just need to share or be interoperable uh between traffic information. If you just have one layer, maybe last resort like an onboard camera, even if you don't always is a solution in all situation, might actually be be good enough to just do it. And in Belgium, we we've been actually working the last few months on creating this new kind of framework that will also allow flights in populated areas because up to now they're really worrying about what if two drones collide above the cities, then two drones come down and that is **[28:03]** not in the Sora process, right? Two drones. Oh, we don't know. And ARISK is only about man versus drone. It's not drone versus drone. So we try to come up over the last few months, we've been working very intensively with the Belgian CA to figure out how we can solve drone versus drone without going to use space again. Uh both in uncontrolled airspace, controlled airspace, um and and where it also works not just in populated but in sparsely populated. So it's like a universal framework and we've actually got quite far in that uh up to the point where we actually started the proof of concept now right now. So over the next few months we're going to do BV loss rights with with a few drone operators to prove that everything like alert buffers like evasive evasive maneuvers and all type of conditions that it works. And if that works, we can then give the Belgian CA the the proof that they need to go to Yaza to tell Yaza, you know, use space might be fine when we need it when the traffic density is high **[29:06]** enough, but up until then, we have done our homework and we will do it this way. We can do it this way and we can do it safely. That is what we're trying to work on. So, Uspace is a solution, but just not right now. We're not there yet. we don't have the level of in of u um we don't have the level of traffic at the moment that does it. So here are the main tips. Choose the first country to start in as an operator. So your own country as sort of to speak where your business is located. Choose one that is BV loss progressive. Then do your analysis of the regulatory aspects where you want what you want to do which clients you need what areas they need to fly in what are the areas ground things like that start with early revenue like partnering up with somebody that already has an approval like an LUC something that also FlytBase is doing right where they offer a client new client let's do the first six months through that LUC holder and in the meantime you get your permits and then you go and go you know do **[30:10]** it yourself create a model operations manual figure it out country by country and just repeat the entire process country by country back again from point 2 to point 4. You do it each and every time for every country. That is how you currently scale. In the future it will be better. There will be more decorative scenarios. There will be generic cross borders workload with shift manufacturers things like that. It will get better. It just takes time effort and cooperation. And today it takes takes a little bit too much time. So that is a reality. Thank you very much. >> Thank you so much uh Yon. This was such a wonderful like you know a powerp packed contentpacked session. I really loved how you shared even though they are all a part of YASA all the countries have so much in difference in terms of um I mean there's so much difference in uh when you're applying for BV laws. I think we've one question that **[31:13]** we wanted to check I I think you've already covered but which country is the easiest to get approval in and where should they look for the first customer which you um shared. >> Um well we're based in Belgium. We like Belgium. It's quite progressive. So that is definitely a good country. Uh Germany already allows a lot but again populated is still difficult. Um then France you have these zones which is also a bit less scalable. So I I'm not going to say go for don't I'm not going to say don't go for that country. Right. Uh but >> look at where you want to go. And at at this time I think Belgium is one of the most progressive ones. We can fly in uncontrolled airspace. We can fly in controlled airspace across sparsely populated. By 2027 we'll be able to do it in populated uh areas as well. which basically means that apart from some military zones, >> we'll probably be able to fly in a in in a lot of the country **[32:17]** um and in a generic way. So Belgium does not give precise sodas. Belgium gives you generic sodas from the start. There's no need to build up evidence or build up experience. You can just go ahead if you do it right, if you do it properly, your homework. And uh that's what we like in Belgium. It's it's we're really growing quite fast in beos uh operators because the CA works actively uh to do that and flying bevels in sparsely populated and uncontrolled airspace is actually already um let's say further than Aza sometimes feels comfortable with. So it it is really creating you know the the the base of showing [snorts] that it's safe by flying it by doing it by finding solutions and not just waiting until there is some European solution which is not always scalable and I think the the minds are got especially in the associations the drone associations are starting to change like okay we can do it **[33:18]** just need to figure out why and it's going to it's going to get better in time and use space it's fine but just wait another five years before you do it because and only do it where you need it, not everywhere. It's not it's not a scalable solution for everyone. It's just too expensive, especially today when there's just not that many operators yet. We need to grow first and then we need to uh also scale what we need with respect to the traffic, >> right? Uh I I even that was really interesting. There's so many organizations that are actually looking to apply for LUC but underneath that you need the Sora and the PD which takes roughly 6 months in certain geographies. So it's not as simple as just getting an LUC and starting an ROC. So there's one question uh which is like when should actually organizations apply for LU? Is there any particular like you know okay only when you meet XYZ criteria you're starting a BOS command center **[34:19]** remote one to many operations that's when you should probably go for LUC otherwise that's just overengineering is there any insights on that you would like to share Yon before we close if you're already 5 minutes >> at at this time especially in Belgium where we already have generic solas as a standard uh the only reason we really see to have an LU is just simply to speed up the crossber process. >> Okay, >> you know that you don't have to wait that much time to get to a new location. But that's practically it when cross borders then become generic. The question is when does an LU actually make sense? Because if you do an Luc don't don't underestimate the administrative amount of work that comes with it. There's almost at least a half full-time equivalent up to one full-time equivalent like one person in your company working full-time, nothing else to do administrative work that is required for the LUC. You need to pay that guy. So, your business case needs to be really earning enough **[35:20]** money to actually offset that cost. And if you already have generic suras and things like that, it might not make a difference. If you have a Sora for flying an uncontrolled airspace, BV loss in Belgium and you have an LU on top of that. If the Netherlands says no BV loss flights in uncontrolled airspace, it doesn't matter if you have an LU, it's still a no, right? So the LU is time. That's makes the difference. It's it allows you to go faster from to a new location. But once generic cross borders come and we hope it's really coming fast but it's probably going to take two years or maybe a little bit more before we can do that then then the real question is when do you really need an Luc one to many operations is not a reason to get an LU >> it's still a sora >> it's the sora describes how you do the process and procedures for one to many the luc just describes how you go about it if you discover a difficulty how you implement it to improve the **[36:22]** system and how you do uh new variations of what you already have as an approval like adding a new drone model or you know doing new locations but if you have a generic surro that's already there um every time you then change your documentation you have to record it if you have a generic sur you don't have to do all the changes through an entire process you can just do the major change and then go back to the CA but every minor change you can just If you have your Luc you can't you need to go through that process the whole time again your internal process administrative process and in some ways it actually slows you down >> right >> but for cross borders it's speedy work >> okay that makes a lot of sense I think we've already um uh I mean we are up on time there's still a lot of people watching this so uh and there there are a few questions so why don't you just go ahead and drop in your LinkedIn profile on the chat on the both the public as well as the session uh chat and uh anybody who would **[37:26]** like to get in touch with you. You have so much wealth of information to share. Yeah, they they should be able to reach out to you. Uh maybe even you can drop in your email ID if they want to get in touch and you know take it forward from there. Uh for everybody joining in, thank you so much. This was such an in insightful session and Yan really tried to put in a lot of information in in like less than 20 minutes. So, thank you again for sticking around and uh hope to see you in another session uh at NestGen and Yan. Thank you so much again. Uh and we'll see you soon. >> Thank you Bali. It was quite fun to do. Um and if anybody has any questions, I'll put contact details in the chat. uh feel free to reach out or connect on LinkedIn or things like that. Uh and uh we also have a a drone architect drone architect LinkedIn profile where we also put some relevant information from now and then. So feel free to follow that >> and uh good luck in your future endeavors. >> Uh it's a **[38:31]** really nice industry to be in in it, but you just need to put in the work. That's the only problem. >> Thank you so much once again. Have a nice rest of the day. Uh, see you in the next session everyone. Bye. >> All right.