# Leveraging Surveillance and C2 Data-as-a-Service for Large Scale Deployments

- Event: NestGen ’24
- Published: March 30, 2024
- Length: 45:06
- Watch: https://nestgen.org/library/watch/2Q0dDfdAcGk/

> The transcript of a recorded NestGen session, for reading or for use with an AI tool. It comes from the video's
> captions; automatic captions can mishear names and terms.

## About this session

Join us as we delve into leveraging surveillance and C2 data for large-scale drone deployments. Explore the critical role of connectivity in remote operations, regulatory considerations, and the evolution of airspace management. Discover how innovative solutions like Skyline and Flight Line from uAvionix are shaping the future of drone operations, ensuring safety and efficiency. Gain valuable perspectives on infrastructure investment and regulatory harmonization, paving the way for seamless integration of drone technology into diverse industries.

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## Transcript

**[0:21]** hello everyone good afternoon good evening good morning to everyone joining into the session as I told you please let us know where you're joining in from let us know how the session of n gen 2024 have been so far your feedback means the world to us uh this session is going to be really interesting we are going to discuss leveraging surveillance and C2 data as a service for large scale deployments today we have siril Cronenberg from UAV onxs our expert us who's going to guide us through the through his presentation and help us learn more about the topic uh I will take a few uh pointers from his uh slides as I went through his slides it's a really interesting topic because you know in the last two years we've seen quite a lot of adoption of drone in a box technology with that with the number of uh drone in the Box uh or docks in the market the remote operations have multifold in the last few years and with remote operations and operations of nested Technologies one thing

**[1:24]** which is very common and critical is connectivity loss of connectivity equals loss of control and we don't want that that's not safe so what are the regulations around uh connectivity what are the regulations around remote operations where is the industry heading how are we making sure that our skies are safe and map and how is C2 connectivity critical to remote operations all these topics I don't know the answers to these questions but siril does and he's going to help us with uh he's going to guide us through this present his presentation and we're going to learn quite a lot as I said sir Cronenberg uh maybe I'll give a quick introduction sir Cronenberg is the vice president of Business Development and strategic Partnerships for UAV onx heading up the Strategic expansion of the rapidly growing offering of general aviation uas and infrastructure Solutions with over 30 years of experience in the

**[2:24]** aviation industry siril most recently served as the VP for Aron LC where he was one of the founding members of the Aron executive team responsible for the global deployment space Global deployment space-based adsp he has worked in numerous senior and executive Aviation roles which include the International Air transport Association km Royal Dutch Airlines Martin air and the Royal Dutch Air Force sir holds licenses as an air traffic controller a pilot a remote part 107 pilot and as a flight dispatcher this provides him with a unique firsthand experience of operational requirements for a broad segment of the aviation industry welcome to nen 2024 seral we're very we honored to have you and we quite excited to learn a lot from you today so maybe you can give a wave and say hi to the audience hey everyone I'm uh hopefully I can I can see the chat on the side uh I think I think I

**[3:29]** see it live so if anyone has anything they want to ask or any questions I I'll I'll try and read that live as well and in the meantime I'll I'll put my presentation uh up here awesome uh but before uh you share that s so that actually uh quick reminder to the audience again thank you for the segue as s mentioned just feel free to drop in the questions in the chat box let them FL let them don't let them stop don't be shy uh sessions will will be recorded and will be published soon you can visit different boots in the Expo section uh feel free to screenshot any of the slides uh any of the session slides and then post them on LinkedIn with the hashtag nesg the top three posts will receive special nesen hampers uh with that over to you s uh let me stop sharing my screen and you can then get started perfect let me go try that again

**[4:32]** all right let me know if you can see it you can see your screen perfect yeah so here's my email address in case any anyone has any uh direct questions they want to ask uh but yeah long long history in in the aviation sector um really came from a lot of the uh what what we now sort of start calling traditional Aviation uh both on the flying side and on on the the management side and I think that provides a really unique uh inside into the world of drones and um a little bit about my company we actually started off into the Drone business before there was a drone business uh because our company came from model aircraft uh Paul beard our our founder uh was the inventor of the spread Spectrum Radio which is now sort of the standardized uh remote control radio that uh that really anything that flies used to run on um that that company moved into adsb uh where uh we started expanding that business into the general aviation market

**[5:37]** and and very quickly we became uh one of the largest companies in the world for general aviation adsb equipment um from there we've started expanding into other markets whether it's commercial Aviation the defense Market uh and even into uh space and and other areas but we really try and focus on the core piece of connecting things that fly in the air we want to make sure that the airspace is available for anyone that wants to fly and that that that is done in a safe way uh through uh Communications that's our our core focus of of the company so when I came in this in this role um and and with my background I had heard about drones and seen about drones but we were very much in I would say in a sandbox mode um a lot of people were doing great stuff um and uh that's only fairly recently moved on to uh here in the US called part 107 I I would not want to start with what everybody

**[6:42]** calls it which is part of the problem that every every country in the world does things slightly different but here in the US uh we we created this part 107 rule we started using visual observers uh as the eyes of what traditionally was the pilot in the aircraft uh and we've barely tipped our toes go into things like typification Beyond visual side waivers uh which are increasingly being issued but not enough to really make this commercially viable yet uh and we've seen here in the US the first uh uh issuing of something called an exemption so truly a uh an unmanned operation under a part one part 91 um rule uh where the FAA Exempted certain rules out of part 91 for that operation so you're you're theoretically you're just flying as if you were a crude aircraft um and and you're Exempted for not having a window and not being able to look outside and and the FAA has spent a

**[7:43]** lot of time trying to figure out how to get there and and that's not unlike where I see Canada being uh Europe being and and other parts of the world everyone is sort of uh tipping the toes in how do you get to a large scale introduction of of these of operations um which means the reality for a lot of us and there there are exemptions uh so those of you that are online that are part of the exemptions uh you you know who they are but for the vast majority of of drone operators this is still the harsh reality um for for those with a little bit of a a larger uh footprint or or a desire to fly further and higher uh there still is a high reliance on radar technology on adsb uh we're still going out in the field with trucks and vans people that follow the Drone around uh through extended visual observers or even visual

**[8:43]** observers from a car uh we we really not scratch the surface uh very much on how do you truly scale and there are certainly some exemptions um thinking zipline and Google Wing are are probably some some clear examples there both are customers of of UV onx uh but it those are more the exception uh than than the rule at this point a lot of operations still rely heavily on a visual Observer um I I thought U just making a a little bit of a s side step into uh corridors and detect that and avoid and C2 and thinking back well how how was it 40 50 years ago or or a little longer uh in the commercial Aviation in the crude Aviation world uh so this this gentleman is the inventor of air traffic control he was the first air traffic controller that ever performed a job his name is Archie League um and he did Air Traffic Control sitting on a chair under an umbrella um bringing his lunchbox

**[9:47]** every morning uh watching the planes at this Airfield take off and making sure that they weren't flying into anything um if you start thinking about it he really was the world's first visual Observer and the more you uh look into the details of where I see Regulators going there's a lot of parallels between uh the the the uncrewed and the crude worlds uh that were uh that needed to fall into place before it could be commercially viable if you think back to these days where uh Archie League was sitting at that airport under that umbrella that doesn't sound very scalable uh very quickly because you'd need an Archie leak at every airport you would fly to with umbrella sitting outside and that obviously was was not something that uh that they were they were intending to do at the time but that was what they what they had back in the days so a lot of things have happened in since that the early days of commercial Aviation um The Regulators uh built a lot of standards that are very

**[10:50]** common in the in that world uh AIS is one so Define uh what what information you need to fly Define the format of that information set the standards on how you communicate those they defined what airspace was what safety requirements were they defined what separation standards were and uh my favorite three are the the three on the bottom to do all that they set standards for how you communicate they set standards for how you navigate and they set standards for what you do for surveillance and surveillance can be a simple as a pair of eyes looking outside and it can be as complicated as Radars or adsb or even more technologies that that can be used but most importantly standards were create um and they in short became uh the the code words aim ATM and CNS so ATM is what we currently call Air Traffic Control air traffic management aim is uh aeronautical Information Management everything that goes into creating uh the information needed to conduct those

**[11:53]** flights and and CNS is Communications navigation surveyance you need all three to do commercial Aviation safely so let's jump back to the corridors a lot of us uh think about uh commercial uh drone operations in terms of corridors and we think that way primarily because of the integration uh problem that a lot of drones will face when they fly Beyond visil site because how do you separate yourself from other traffic um there are a lot of people that fear words like corridor or ranges or or whatever it is but to me a corridor is nothing different than a type of airspace and what you see here on the map is uh sort of my home right next to Washington dollars that is one big Corridor I have all kinds of nice lines around my house where I can fly cannot fly but that doesn't apply just to me as a drone operator it also applies to me as a general

**[12:56]** aviation pilot because there are certain areas where I can go certain areas where I should not go uh and the requirements for these areas change based on where you fly in those corridors in some areas I don't have to talk to anyone I don't have to be seen in other areas I need uh a transponder and a radio um all of this is published uh it's it's publicly available through the aim I can pull these Maps I have applications where I can run them and in the world of crit Aviation we all accept this as the standard uh very rarely is that challenged and when it's challenged it's typically around an event where all of a sudden the airspace is is closed in its entirety let's think the Super Bowl that very often leads to people being uncomfortable because now they can't fly but in general all participants in this airspace understand the rules uh and work nicely with each other to follow those rules and all that separation uh that is happening is is very much based on rules

**[13:58]** and Technology so lay the uh communication navigation surveillance over over that and think uh from a uh drone perspective uh in in these corridors there are Comm requirements so if you fly for instance in the uh the dotted uh area uh within that area you need uh uh VHF uh you need to have a certain navigation performance and you need surveillance you need transponders and you need to be able to see see those aircraft so when you lay over the uas piece there those Comm requirements are really what in our world is called C2 um so it is not uncommon for theand Aviation world to say well if you want to fly to Washington Dallas doesn't matter what type of aircraft you have uh if you fly a little little Piper cup you can go but the minimum requirement is you have to have two-way communication so very similar to how I see

**[15:00]** increasingly Regulators treat uh the unmanned world uh is where Regulators say the more the more dangerous or risky your flight is whether that's for airspace safety or because of your your aircraft being heavier uh or because you're carrying passengers the heavier these requirements on Comm on C2 are going to get you have to be able to uh perform to a certain standard what is not happening yet is uh The Regulators actually telling you what technology to use uh in in most cases actually they're not telling you but what I'm seeing increasingly is they're telling you to what performance level you need to be able to do that when you look on the nav requirements very similar um a lot of us uh I've I've seen hundreds if not thousands of drones with all kinds of uh solot taped stuff in it and uh people have a GPS in it and I usually my first first question I asked being an aviation Nar it is well

**[16:02]** what's your GPS performance I'm always surprised how many people don't know that um how accurate is that GPS what's the heritage of that GPS how do you know it's functional uh so there are technical standards such as a TSO which are very common in crude Aviation uh things like ins uh that are that are very common in crude Aviation that are not necessarily always uh adopted into unced um but they are important because when you're starting to fly near or in cities where the chance of uh of an incursion with a crude aircraft is higher or where an air trffic controller is starting to get interested in your flight the accuracy and integrity of that GPS position becomes increasingly relevant if you're pushing an adsb transponder with your GPS the Integrity of that GPS becomes very important because otherwise uh you your adsp position becomes unreliable and the same can be said for surveillance

**[17:03]** requirements if you're flying out in the field uh in a military area where there's zero chance of any other aircraft flying or you're flying uh underneath the bridge uh near a big structure the requirement on uh your surveillance might be very different than if you're requiring uh if you're flying very close to a major airport um where you could see all kinds of of traffic so a lot of uh misconception still around the concept of of corridors and detect and avoid and uh and C2 uh we still very much see corridors as a as a means to keep traffic away from other traffic uh or to sort of confine drone operations into a into a single area but I I don't really see it that way the the the increasing use of corridors or or uh CN the uh how you say that um U type airspace is more of a new type of airspace and you can you can see that in Europe with the

**[18:07]** the increasing use of the word usace uh we're not doing that here in the US yet uh Canada is not doing that yet but we are clearly seeing a move into that direction where we're defining a a piece of airspace where drones mix in with crude aircraft uh by defining what are the minimum requirements for that airspace to operate in there both from a surveillance perspective as a C2 perspective but increasingly also you see that on navigation or type of what what do you need to have uh to get your position information and to share that information with with other uh participants so the the question of how is that managed is an old one um we all started off with UTM was going to be the future uh I personally still don't know exactly what UTM exactly is but it there is going to be some form of control whether that is fully automated self-separation uh or if it's if it's done purely based on capabilities of

**[19:13]** participants uh but something needs to happen there and it's still unclear to me what exactly that will be uh increasingly we see service providers for some of these services that take part of that role um and that's definitely the the direction that we see here the US and Canada go into when it comes to visual l a side Beyond visual side flight so back to current day um integration of airspace is still happening largely under uh I would still call them cordor projects cordor sounds a little bit linear but that can be just a a large square piece of airspace where operations occur but it is still uh very much managed by uh State uh uh Endeavors whether it's uh run by University or run by a private entity but still these things are very much large infrastructure developments or completely isolated areas where uh drone operations take place um separation is uh very much

**[20:17]** based on the capabilities of the corridor um and increasingly we see Corridor providers uh or operators of these large ranges also start managing the information that needs to be shared with the operators uh and manage the systems that can be shared with uh operators such as C2 and daa system because that becomes one of the uh critical items in expanding drone use uh if if five people are going to fly in an area and all five need to be buying Radars uh that is never going to get uh to a commercial valuable solution in in the future so the the demand for operations mixed operations will absolutely keep increasing we we very clearly see that uh our as as a company our unman business is is growing at a much faster Pace than our crude operations so you you can see that shift happening um and uh individual operators uh

**[21:19]** very uh increasingly start getting closer to each other here in the US there is a big project on Theo in Texas where the faas is actually starting to encourage multiple package delivery operators to uh uh nearby each other uh start operations and starting to focus on how do you do that in parallel with other operators how do you coordinate those um the equipment and the systems that all of them use uh will also start overlapping we already have customers that are in the same area that use the same backend system uh for their detect and avoid data or for their C2 data and that's definitely an area that is expanding quite quickly so ivionics contributes uh besides our avionics itself that is on many drones uh in the world we contribute very much on two fronts there we contribute uh through what we call Skyline which is a managed command and control and we contribute to what we call flight line which is

**[22:23]** a managed detect and avoid Network so one is aimed at uh ensuring that the C2 link uh for drones meets the performance requirements from a regulator uh the high performance requirements for a regulator so if you're just flying with a hand controll or a small DJI you're not very likely to use a manage C2 link but if you're flying a cesna caravan over hundreds of miles uh between large cities that C2 link becomes much more important uh and it it becomes unviable to men manage a network of radios by yourself so on the skyline side we we uh developed a what's called a link manager on the aircraft which is able to to connect multiple sources of C2 and unlike a lot of the existing uh Solutions out there that that still require pretty manual link changes this fuses the links in its entirety so the the all packets

**[23:26]** that go through the Drone to the Ground Control station uh all in the cloud managed to get their their way from the Drone to the ground and the other way around using uh whatever spectrum is available they they go over cband satcom LTE ISM depending on what that Network looks like but it guarantees a very high level of performance for that that C2 link on the flight line side and this is uh something that we increasingly see also in other parts of the world we started deploying uh ATC grade uh adsb receivers not unlike your more crowdsourced networks like flight away or flight rate 24 but with a very clear focus on data Integrity uh this is this is data that can be used for a traffic control uh but we're focusing on low altitude so a lot of gaps are typically there at low altitudes within ATC data and that is where your ga uh threat will come from so that's where we focused our deployment with

**[24:29]** flight line this data is all centrally managed uh we validate that data uh through multilateration we provide a validation score to the customer and and through an API the End customer is then able to feed this into their own front end whether that's the GCS or or the uh their own detect and avoid uh front end application and in some cases they use our our UI um both of these combined flight line can be fed into Skyline as you can see on the left there you see some some traffic in there they become uh not the entire operation but they become a big part of ultimately what is the operational backend for Beyond visual side flight so on the connectivity side as mentioned uh we currently support four uh major uh radio uh links uh ISM which is really US Canada oriented uh LTE uh where we use a network approach uh so the the radio will connect to any network it finds um and it will

**[25:34]** determine the best link during flight uh we have dedicated Spectrum through cband uh which increasingly throughout the world is being uh uh is being reserved for uas command and control uh it's specifically a command and control non- payload link because of its uh high performance uh that is a long range radio to 100 miles on a GR Radio to the to the aircraft and then setcom we have started integrating with Imad and aridium and and are building specific radios for drone operations that uh fit into that mixed mode of uh of of C2 so depending on the mission uh some customers will use only one and can fly perfectly alone on LTE other customers are fine with ISM which is unprotected and therefore a little bit higher risk of of loss of that data uh all the way up to a very high level of quality cand with the ability

**[26:36]** to actually certify that uh for things like passenger carrying Vehicles Urban Air Mobility as well as satcom which has that same um that same Heritage on the flight line side we have uh deployed with several of our customers uh at at a larger scale um Florida Power and light some of our large customers in the US we have worked very closely with Civil Air Patrol here in the US to uh roll out but the the end result is that we now have several States throughout the US where this data is uh covering 100% of the state down to 500 feet all this data is available over an API so it could very easily feed a front end whether that's a kbur front end or an anra front end or somebody else's UTM system uh for us that's all uh possible but it it makes it easier for operators to uh pull in data that's already there without having to go and and install a whole bunch of Hardware themselves for their

**[27:39]** operation recently we did an acquisition uh we now also brought in the optical uh piece uh so Iris automation is now also UV onics which is an optical detection of uh of anything that flies whether it's a bird or a drone or a small plane and we're using that uh effectively as your non-cooperative uh element so cooperative and non-cooperative can be done through Optical all of that has resulted into uh in the US are uh we're one of the four companies that as an operator have received an exemption from the FAA to uh fly our uh our our aircraft and that exemption was entirely based on the daa system and the C2 system which has led to many of our customers waivers for that same uh with that same back end um our customer use and and the users of this system are typically not single

**[28:42]** operators they're uh pretty much Enterprise type operators so oil gas linear inspections um a lot of uh uh law enforcement use uh dfr type use cases and increasingly also International we've got a lot of customers in the UK and in Europe and also increasingly now in Asia Pacific and in in Latin America so the to close it off uh we went from complete segregation of drones and sort of an hobby environment into a full integration where actually that that vo that used to be outside is now inside managing that flight uh through sensor information both on link quality C2 Quality daa quality but it it has become in all our operations an internal function our our electronic Observer the way we call it is no longer outside but has a series of systems inside um we'll always see corridors remain uh

**[29:42]** but but over over the time we believe that it will get more and more automated and you can very well see that function uh move uh even more to the right in a network Operation Center where uh an electronic obser server manages multiple flights for airspace management or an rpck managed multiple flights because of very highly reliable C2 and daa so we we feel that these are some very critical elements in the development of of large scale Beyond vilina side flight and uh these are the two that we are currently very actively uh engaging in with with our customer base so that was what I had for you point and I I said I was going to look at the chat but I was actually not able to do that because I have my full screen on so um but I'll I'll hand it back to you um thank you so much s that was really informative and it was quite helpful we do have few questions and I'll take up uh those one by one and I also have a few

**[30:46]** questions of my own if you don't mind so once we take the questions from the audience maybe I'll take a few so uavionix has great capabilities for com so this is a question from Christopher uavionix has has great capabilities for communication and surveillance from your perspective who should be responsible for buying infrastructure to support drone operations if the ansp doesn't buy it will it be trusted it's it's not an easy one to answer I I wish I could say uh the state will just buy it for everyone um and we we have seen those examples the state of North Dakota is a great example um we are currently also deploying uh Hardware at a state level in Oklahoma where the funding also comes more searly from from the state level we also have seen uh large Enterprise customers funding the deployment of this technology Florida Power and Light is one of those customers um they are deploying the capability for daa and C2 in the State of Florida but they are self-funding that

**[31:47]** to support their operations in all cases the philosophy behind that is in my view fairly uh similar they all believe that that technology is sharable between operators like once you have a daa layer in a state whether that's North Dakota or Florida depending on who who funded that that data becomes sharable um and and it becomes monetizable as well so Florida Power and Light could allow us to resell the data that was derived from their system to operators that are flying in state of Florida for dfr or for package delivery there's really no reason for somebody else to then duplicate uh that that capability uh I still think that state funding is probably uh the main driver for the next foreseeable future uh there are not a lot of companies that have the depth to do it themselves but that will change over time I think once drone uses getting a little bit more commercially viable uh we will see more entities deploy we are we are self-funding it uh the

**[32:51]** entire flight line deployment uh throughout the US uh our goal is within the year to have 100% cover coverage in the contigous US uh for for drone operations uh and and we're doing that with our partners um through a model where our our partners help us roll that out and and we provide that data to them and to other staff that might want that data for their own operations awesome so uh that was quite interesting and uh one aspect based on your experience most private entities who are you know Enterprises who are uh adopting this technology are they really making the data available is that uh happening or are they trying to re are they reselling the data and making a business mod out so the the model that we have with Florida Power and Light is exactly that uh we it was a a model where they funded the deployment uh we were the deploying entity uh and were able to resell that detect and avoid data in a commercial arrangement with uh

**[33:52]** florid par light so that's actually a very useful way of doing it because they they need it anyway anyway they need to operate and hopefully that makes it cheaper for others to use uh down the line uh in in the case of uh North Dakota it's more of a commercial entity that was formed under the state Oklahoma it is really uh done under the umbrella off of a a test range uh but increasingly also supporting other operators and and there's at least six or seven large scale deployments uh either in the works or already on their way uh Texas is a real big one but we're also seeing the same happen in Canada we're involved in in Alberta with a large Corridor where it's not a single operator it's multiple operators sharing the same infrastructure and I see the same models starting to uh develop in Europe as well so I I think it's viable uh it's definitely needed to make commercial operations happen awesome thank you for that and also uh maybe history teaches teaches teaches us a lot and uh you

**[34:56]** you took up a Aviation general aviation at the start uh maybe could you share how how if you if you do know uh how did the story unfold maybe 50 60 100 years ago is it's is the same story can that be replicated for us uh Corridor mapping and you know uh detection I I personally think so I mean things that things that were Unthinkable uh 10 years ago or five years ago uh are are now very uh very accepted um and we're also seeing Regulators that historically were shying away from telling crude aircraft that they needed to be seen uh into actually mandating it uh we're we're seeing an an adaptation of adsp on u in other countries uh than than the US um electronic security is one of those topics that you can clearly see is starting to gain a lot of traction because Regulators understand that without it

**[35:57]** it's going to be almost impossible to solve this uh this dilemma so I'm I'm convinced that five years from now we will have significant expansion in the ability to fly large scale drone operations and that's partially because we've we've created standards we've created ways of communicating between crude and UNC crude and we've created airspace rules to Define what that needs to look like and uh but it's not going to happen tomorrow um there there I think will probably still be in the corridor mode for the next two three years or so uh unfortunately and with with exceptions I mean Australia um parts of of Africa where where the zip line and Wing have large operations Australia where they have large operations they clearly crack the nut and and partially that is because of a very homogeneous crude environment that makes that easier to to do but um yeah I'm I'm optimistic for sure also one more aspect that

**[36:57]** you covered was the fact that every country every region has different regulations currently and how did it happen for general aviation was there a central body that was formed to you know uh gen make it a general sort of a uh regulation space uh do you foresee that with drones as well because us space is different you know from us from Canada and also uh the regulations in Australia yeah I always have to I always have to be careful I mean I was on many Iko panels in my in my days and I've seen the sausage making of international rules uh at at its best it takes four years to create a rule and it and it's worst I've seen it take 12 years so but unfortunately that is the the way it it will end up going um unless caas all come together and start uh adapting to each other's best practices I think for now we'll still see International differences a great uh a great example of that is your Europe is going

**[37:57]** One Direction with their ADSL uh standard that nobody else has the US is entirely on adsb Canada and the UK are entirely on adsb so at some point in time that will have to change so either either Europe changes or the rest of the world changes but you cannot sustain two completely separate standards um because otherwise you'll just create manufacturing that is only applicable for Europe and only applicable for the US so is it going to be 100% the same I don't know um IO has a role in that um and I increasingly see IO uh start adapting things like talking about C2 and talking about UTM and and that's been actually a Prime Focus of IO for a while but the the focus for Iko has for the longest time really been around larger drones integrating with crude aircraft and not so much on on the lower altitude problem and I think that's starting to change now so um but I I definitely see uh rules being flushed out in in

**[38:59]** the US were probably three four years away from a first read of what part 108 looks like um and Canada has issued some first clear rules that I think are very similar to what the US is identifying for part 108 uh and I see the UK going in that same direction so there's definitely some commonality to starting to happen and and as soon as you have commonality IO will start publishing things at a more rapid Pace I think we're still too diverse at the moment to do that awesome that was very helpful maybe we'll take just one or two more questions we feir over time but I guess the audience is interacting so uh leiba is asking please elaborate more on the assistance of flight line and Skyline regarding say here and avoid I uh maybe if you can you can open the Q&A section and see the question on the right yeah I mean I I'm happy to talk a little bit two flight line if if uh let me just I I'll go and actually try and and share

**[40:04]** share my screens I think that that says a lot more than um let me see how I can quickly do that here CH T there we go so what you can see here is uh and and this is just pretty pretty picture planes on a map uh nothing different than that but um if you look at for Power and Light as as one of our customers so there is a a pretty substantial deployment of sensor Network throughout the State of Florida um and it it goes down to uh the airport levels I'm I'm picking up here an airport like Tampa where uh we've got the ground traffic so there there's a lot of a lot of sensors are deployed for an existing customer so we've gone through the effort with that customer to get these sensors and this data network uh Serv certified uh through waivers and uh in in North Dakota through an exemption uh and the philosophy

**[41:04]** here is that if another operator say the police department in Clearwater wants to start flying Beyond vigila site and is in the need for uh detect and avoid data to do that they have multiple choices they can deploy their own radar they can deploy their own sensors they can deploy an optical device but what we're trying to get to is that they can pull in this non-cooperative sorry this Cooperative data this adsp data as uh an element in their overall safety case um and if there is a radar uh which in Florida where we have multiple ingested in this system then that radar data can become the uh non-cooperative piece but the whole philosophy is that you're taking the burden of proving the system out and demonstrating to the FAA or which other regulator it is how uh how good that data is or that the data is good enough for separation and you're you're effectively just letting the customer point to an

**[42:05]** existing system that already went through that certification process and we're starting to do the same in in Europe I I'll just quickly show you for for the UK um that sensor network is very quickly being deployed as well we we're doing that in partnership with uh British Telecom we've been helping us host some of these sensors but the same philosophy applies there there is no need for each operator in the south of of England to go and deploy their own sensor network instead they can just uh take uh I see Chris is on online they can take the the one sky application as a front end and uh one sky can pull in through an API the data from flight line and that becomes the layer for detect and avoid so for uh Cooperative aircraft to see Cooperative Cooperative aircraft if you're in an airspace like near London where uh there's a requirement for uh certain technology or even better in the US under

**[43:06]** remote cvil where adsb is a requirement then that becomes pretty much 99% of your requirement for detect and avoid uh when you have that type of a capability so that's sort of the underlying uh uh thought behind flight line and and it's very quickly expanding six months ago there was nothing uh so we've very quickly started deploying that and I think we're six months away or so from doing that at a at least in the US at a national scale awesome thank you so much for that explanation siril I hope that helps Lea we are quite over time and I would love to take more questions we have uh maybe just Lea's follow-up question uh anything in Africa uh sensor network uh not yet uh happy to participate uh so the whole our concept here is that the sensors are uh high quality and very low cost uh and our uh our

**[44:06]** partnership approach has been rolling that out with Partners uh locally so whoever's the first to to help us get probably the the the best deal out of this uh but ultimately we are relying on Partners we don't have our own team going out and installing those uh we do have operators in Africa that work with us so very likely we'll we start seeing some initial sensors there but uh we certainly would like to to work with any operator in in the area awesome so Lea if you if you're interested and you know the right people there who could get in touch with s feel free to share his email uh that that was all our time so thank you for joining s thank you for this really informative session I learned a lot personally and I have written notes and I'm going to follow up on it and I hope everyone in the audience learned a lot as well uh please feel free to give give us a Fe feedback in the wall of Love sir and everyone who've joined in uh thank you for the session and we can perfect thanks everyone thank you goodbye