# Mapping Out the US Regulatory Landscape

- Event: NestGen ’24
- Published: April 14, 2024
- Length: 42:30
- Watch: https://nestgen.org/library/watch/01Q1N45PRTU/

> The transcript of a recorded NestGen session, for reading or for use with an AI tool. It comes from the video's
> captions; automatic captions can mishear names and terms.

## About this session

Explore insights from experts on navigating the complex US drone regulatory landscape at NextGen24. Discover current regulations, anticipated changes, and compliance strategies in the evolving technology sector. Sponsored by DJI Enterprise and Sunflower Labs, this session offers practical advice and visionary outlooks for startup founders, tech giants, and curious minds alike. Dive into the evolving role of human oversight, the potential of shielded BVLOS operations, and the impact of drone docks on operational capabilities.

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## Transcript

**[0:21]** welcome to another insightful session at Nest gen24 today we're navigating the intricate Pathways of the US regulatory landscape now this is going to be a session that promises you demystify the complex web of regulations governing the skies and digital frontiers of the United States as we stand on the cusp of a new era in technology and Innovation understanding the regulatory environment is more crucial than ever whether you're a startup founder a tech giant or a curious mind eager to understand how policies shape our technological Futures you're in the right place our panel today is a diverse group of experts who live and breathe regulatory policies right they come from a wide variety of backgrounds all United by a common goal to make sense of the US regulatory landscape for the betterment of Technology the industry and Society so they're going to be sharing their insights into current regulations anticipated changes and strategies for navigating compliance in a rapidly evolving ecosystem expect a deep dive into challenges and opportunities that

**[1:25]** lie ahead with practical advice and Visionary outlooks before we get started couple of housekeeping if you have questions uh please feel free to uh use them in the Q&A uh so I would say go ahead and uh do the uh the Q&A section uh this is proudly sponsored thank you to our sponsors DJI Enterprise and sunflower labs for helping us bring this event to you and last but L least this is being recorded So you want to hear this again it you absolutely can if just give them a few days and they're going to get after they get some sleep they're going to go ahead and get this recording out to all the attendees now let's meet our panelists so I invite each of you to introduce yourselves and share a brief glimpse into your journey through the regulatory world let's start with um Jim Baker good afternoon everybody real at least afternoon where I'm at um it's great to

**[2:27]** be here today my name is Jim Baker um my uh my past was 30 years in law enforcement the last 10 of which was spent running a a drone program for the K County Sheriff's Office um and with the regulatory side of it of course you know the lower level regulatory side of course we had the 107 with pilots and everything um but towards the end of my career we stood up a dfr program with Beyond visual L of sight waivers and uh um you know being able to run uh the drones from remote locations so that was my foray into the uh the FAA and the FAA Safety Committee and the uh the Maze and uh complicated framework that that is thanks Jim let's move on to John cool thanks Jason uh John heeres I'm the CEO and co-founder of aoft um we found the company in 2015 and I'd say for most of that have been uh helping our users our customers our partners navigate regulations that started with 333 and and

**[3:28]** 107 and and now we have the the inklings of 108 um I've also been fortunate to serve on a couple of uh uh fa arcs including the BV loss Arc that wrapped up last year and we should get rules this summer about so happy to share kind of some of those learnings and and insights from behind the scenes a little bit John thank you uh let's move on to Renault hello everyone uh Reno Matthews I work as director Regulatory Compliance and safety at is Aerospace my background's been in engineering Aviation SMS data analytics and project management I've been uh working the past eight years in the uas industry uh primarily focusing around Regulatory Compliance engineering uh as well as SMS and it's glad to be here in this panel thanks Reno really glad that you're here and last but certainly not least akaki uh good morning good afterno afteron good evening everyone uh yeah gagi Julia

**[4:33]** I work now for metric space uh leading their standards compliance and Regulatory engagement work previous to this work uh been involved with us industry for around eight years doing a bunch of Contracting work with fa NASA and previous to the year that used to be an air traffic controller for the tower approach so yeah from uh r regular Aviation to the Drone uh Aviation awesome kcki thank you so much panelist thank you so much for being here today uh I want to keep this fairly conversational I want to you know we just have one set of questions that I would love to get everyone's perspectives on uh John you brought up the obviously we're gonna talk about it right we got to talk about it the BB loss Arc so considering the FAA's Beyond visual line of sight Aviation rule taking rule making committee BB loss of Park can considering those recommendations and the introduction to part 108 how do you foresee these developments influencing

**[5:35]** the operational Frameworks and the levels of autonomy for drone docks and BV loss operations follow on to that just to keep it rolling what steps should stakeholders take to align with these regulatory changes while advancing the capabilities and safety of autonomous drone technology wow that was a lot yeah that that was a lot um I I think you know looking at the The Arc I know a lot of the participants had some comments and feedback and some frustrations but um I think where the artc came out was ultimately pretty Progressive and and Equitable saying hey let's revisit a lot of these assumptions that we started with so uh I would like to point to operations over people where it's like hey let's measure how much force it takes to if a drone hits your head to kill you and I think in the arc what we did was we said okay that's good to know but what are the chances it's going to hit you in the head in the first place right and I think

**[6:39]** started to measure kind of not just the ultimate what if worst possible thing but what's the severity of that what's the likelihood of that and I think where we got with uh with BB loss was saying uh you know there's a good safety case here there's less risk and and kind of less severity and probability on a lot of these situations and um I think the other thing that is almost kind of beyond the fa a little bit but I think the arc spoke to which was um if we look at this holistically BB loss transforms all of Transportation right it's good for the environment it's good for traffic it's good for all of these other effects um now we're in the the ru making process right everything is kind of Behind Closed do so we'll see what what comes from it um and I think uh I think similar to we saw with the remote ID rule um the I'm sure depending on which side you're on right if you're on the Legacy

**[7:40]** small plane crop duster helicopter crowd you may not be too happy if you're on the Drone side you may not be too happy so I think just as a drone Community we need to be ready to make sure we have our voices heard because we represent the the largest uh numbers of pilots and aircraft in the sky and we have a great safety record Let's uh utilize this natural resource that we have great answer John I really appreciate that um let's move on aaki thoughts yeah I think uh it's going to be really interesting with this par 108 coming into the place hopefully this year at least nprm should be come out summer late summer early fall um I think uh what would be really interesting interes in just overall what you ask Jason about the autonomy levels I think that could be one of the just challenging n with this rule but maybe over coming years because I think we have

**[8:42]** to uh somehow figure out that not all the players will be on the same level of autonomy when you know this autonomy levels will come gradually some will be very much Advanced and then some people will still be hand flying part 10 seven right so all these people have a right to be in the airspace so how do we integrate this like way way higher levels of autonomy with just you know handline guys like recreational so I see that one of the like challenges coming up in these years and then it is honestly uh even a bigger challenge probably in like Legacy Aviation cuz uh fortunately unfortunately uh actual airplanes uh fly for really really long times so some of the some of the air frames I don't know if you fly in us it's like something like 25 30 years right so just to retrofit all of those it's it takes it's it's like just look

**[9:48]** at the adsp equipage right like still some of the big a lines are not equipped so uh one good thing with the Drone industry is like uh drones are you know still pretty cheap and then still you know like people are still you know not flying them for like 15 years or something right like it they renew it like really fast so I would say yes maybe this like technology will be easier to like replace and go to the like higher autonomy and like newer technology vehicles but yeah I think this autonomy levels how to match them and then how eventually to manage them uh they would be really interesting and maybe one of the challenges thanks iaki Jim thoughts well I think our our mindset has to be going forward to this is is just be fluid and flexible um there's one thing that is is for sure technolog is going to outpace regulation and so we have to look at the regulation kind of guide our

**[10:50]** technology to work within the regulation and and be flexible to do as much as they'll let us and keep working with them to to give us more so the autonomy is is is the key the autonomy is is is probably the easier part of this the regulation is what's going to going to hold us back a little bit um and I think it's going to take some regulation some flexity on both sides so right now it seems the Drone industry is is flexing the most and trying to figure this out where man Aviation isn't doing as much because they're already ingrained um you know one simple thing that will help the autonomy is if they mandated adsb on all airplanes in all airspace you know right now we've got a lot of airspace that adsb is not required so now we're in a situation where we have to mitigate those non-compliant or or non-participating not compliant non-participating aircraft um to make sure that everything stays safe well there because of of the gravity of where drones is going I think we need to to have a little bit of flexibility on both sides I think what would help the industry greatly getting that to change you know I'm not from the man aviation industry but the the people I know

**[11:53]** that's probably a bigger lift than getting the Drone world to comply um so but but we need to to to work do our best to work with the regulatory authorities for the with the automation make sure they understand what we're capable of the safety levels in that Automation and uh see if we can try to get some flexibility on both sides yeah flexibility is the key to air power some general said that sometime um Reno thoughts on this question no I think um anything from the regulator any progress towards uh opening up BBL Law's operations for the industry is it's taken as a positive approach I think uh uh it's it's exciting to see uh those changes come into effect and when we see part 108 come out uh as we all know 107 has its limitations today with the extensive work that it's required uh to fly BV laws based on waiver application and at least anything that's open I think uh it's something that we can be flexible towards I do uh appreciate the risk-based approach that they

**[12:56]** also looking towards and um I I think I think uh this is uh definitely uh if if anything it's something positive to look forward to uh as operators absolutely um okay definition time so in the arc you could see that they they they talk about shielded BV loss operations so how and we're going to go back around um how do shielded BV loss operations redefine the boundaries of drone Logistics now especially with drone dos what potential do they hold for expanding operational capabilities beyond the current limitations let's see let's go with Jim well certainly with the the shielded operations it brings in a an I want say an easy level of of safety U because of the shielded environments there's less concern we were talking about a second ago with with Mand Aviation there's definitely a lot less concern of the the M Aviation being in that area people being in that area so

**[13:57]** as long as they can Define The Shield and extend those those definition of shields um we're certainly expanding you know in the the Beyond visual line of sight uh World tremendously um you know and and being able to expand the the areas we can fly that brings in more of the autonomy to cover more ground you know more efficiency um you know everything we're looking for comes with that expansion of the the shield and obviously you want to go beyond just a shield environment U but I think that first step is shielded and one of the difficulties of course versus defining shielded um you ask 10 people and get 10 vastly different answers which what shielded is and and there's probably the other nine people that of of the first 10 I probably have a different idea than what I just said um so U as soon as we can really nail down what that Shield is um the regulatory side can really Define what is that safe distance being in and around those shielded environments um to where we can really go forward and that's where the autonomy is going to expand and that's that's the important part because the more area we have to expand the autonomy the

**[15:01]** more autonomy we have more efficiency the the better end result for our customers whatever that utility customer is or or that that that asset inspection customer is um benefits from us being able to increase that efficiency through through a shield environment thanks Jim uh John could you expand on that thought yeah I've actually been um I'd say pretty optimistic about shielding kind of from where it came from in the ark which was you know very you know belt and suspender saying all right if my drones near by the power line there probably aren't uh aircraft flying around near the power line right um and so that that was kind of that first um thing to say all right if I'm near a building right drones are gonna be very close to what they're doing a lot of times or even if they're flying long distance they can use that um kind of shielding mechanis mechanism um but I would say lately I've seen a lot of BB loss waivers where it's a much more Progressive

**[16:06]** kind of shielding than um than I I think um I was expecting at least just speaking from kind of what I was anticipating where um I've seen BB L waivers for for dock operations where um you look and say hey what's the tallest structure in this x mile area stay below that like then we can really not just think about point to point or very specific routes but we actually have a wide area over which we can fly so um hopefully we we get that same level um in the rule that we've seen in in waiver so if that's if that's a clue then I think we'll be in good shape so it's not just I make a joke about this I I'm being serious when I do the my when I do my pre-f flights obviously they're very important part of any drone operation um I almost always throw in there something related to if I'm operating at 200 feet doing a facade inspection or something like that I usually tell my visual Observer look if there's something operating at our

**[17:07]** operational altitude my drone's not GNA be the problem exactly be real right exactly I mean like if if it's where I am it's crashing like sorry like even a hot air balloon or helicopter right it's not going to be that close to a building right if you're doing inspection yeah no no yeah so it's just I don't know it's interesting um let's move on to uh uh Reno thoughts on this particular Shield name so the fact that the Regulators already done that data that research and defined the definition of shielded operations and they've already proven that you know if you are within that proximity to infrastructure very low altitude uh you know and uh you can fly rule based approach to fly within that shielded operation so as an operator at least that takes off the burden from mon from proving any uh safety data uh to prove that this airspace is safe or it's low traffic density and the Collision the chances of collision with man aircraft is low

**[18:10]** I think that's taken off and now that they've given that defined uh definition or approach as an operator we just have to prove now our conops that it fits or our flight plan fits within that volume of shielded operations and as long as I fed that uh you know I go BB loss or I fly BB loss provided I meet all the criterias that's set for shielded operations so that definitely opens much more doors reduces the complexity uh of uh you know any uh traditional BV loss operations that you would see or having any complex technology such as detect and avoid technology and uh there's definitely I think as we can all see open doors for power line and utility inspection primarily thanks Reno Kaki do you think think this definition uh appeases the traditional Aviation Community um yeah I I I have kind of like controversial thoughts about this in

**[19:12]** general uh well I think honestly the US regulation it's not even regulation it's like they just start an issue in with a waivers with a shielded right so but you know we we should remember that uh you know jarus Sora you know AR a that's basically Shield operation you know like within 50 ft of obstacle or building right so uh whoever adopted jasur methodology they were been already doing this you know throughout the world and I think in Canada also but um what I'm always a little bit skeptical is that especially when we don't really have actual you know distance from the obstacle or defined it might like some people Define 50 ft some people Define 200 fet you know and then everyone has its own right to Define kind of themselves but you know they they might be a cases of gaining the system when you know some people say that hey um a railroad is an infrastructure

**[20:15]** it's uh and then if I'm above railroad like 200 feet I'm in this like shielded airspace which maybe technically yes but you know like really like above railroad 200 ft you know so I think it will be kind of like a lot of back and forth in this coming months and year but I think we'll settle down on more or less some kind of like uh some range and some maybe use cases you know for infrastructure inspection these for someone that but I think overall it's really good because you know like in uh in US people were asked to you know like have a DA solution or a vo for basic any uh boss operations right but like there will be some use cases who will just use uh shielded operation and then they never have to worry about the vo or da so it's good enough for them right like it could be fully autonomous so there but it also has a

**[21:19]** stretch right like and I think in this coming years will sell down I'm pretty sure you know and then uh we'll get some better definitions and more granular I I do like a little perspectives are important right that that's that's what we we're trying to bring here on this this panel so thank you for that um so you also brought up and this is not a lone topic there's been other panels that have talked specifically about the role of human oversight in like visual observers so like obviously in this landscape what is the evolving role of human oversight how does it interplay to enhance SA safety and operational Integrity um let's go back to let's let's go back to Jim let's start with here well I've got a a little bit of experience seeing those differences um from my past life in our in our Jones's first responder program we had a BB loss uh a waiver and you know they they told us that as long as you can see two miles beyond your operational area um you're good to go

**[22:21]** no problem um but all humans are different I can tell you that there were people on that rooftop that could see the Drone when there's no way I could see it with my 55-year-old eyes you know that I'm not seeing anything but they're like yeah drone's right there it's it's going this direction that direction so there's there's so much um human interaction you know we're all human you know we have our cap you know limitations and capabilities um but what's the effectiveness of the human brain to to be a visual Observer and really you know truly Define what a visual Observer is supposed to be you know what's the attention span of the human as opposed to a machine you know a radar system an optical system system whatever the case may be and you start seeing fatigue changes it you know age changes it um you know environmental factors change it so the the human is probably the least reliable of all types of of visual observation um I know the fa had to go down that road of using a human vo you know to start with with all of our operations um but and and obviously there is a level that it's absolutely necessary and absolutely perfect and

**[23:23]** and works very well but when we start talking BB loss operations we're starting to get into to how effective really is a human being and and the the reality is there's there's going to be better technical ways we got to bring that cost in to where it's it's feasible to do um so we now we can can can attack the cost side as well as the operational side and the return on investment side um but we we need to be there with machines eventually uh doing this and replace the humans when it comes to visual observation without a doubt funny story before we move on to the next panelist so my EV thought um using the Vision sensors thought a motorcycle I was passing by was a semi okay um I could clearly see it was a motorcycle um so I mean obviously it's it's a little bit like and we were talking about weather in the last session like just go out take a look like yeah you're right I may not be able to see 10 miles away can't verify that but like I'm gonna go outside to get hyper local information around everything that I can see within a 50 you know five you know 50

**[24:27]** foot window I'm gonna use me I'm gonna trust my observation now I get your point completely get your point and I'd like to hear another perspective on this so let's move to John yeah so hopefully human eyeballs aren't needed at all right um there's a drone 50 miles away that I want to take off and inspect something not right let's not think that it has to fly a long distance it's really about a long distance from where you are right I don't need to roll a truck to some cell tower if I can have a dock boom take it off do inspection um so I think it's ideally less about the humaniz and more about a what's the uh risk threshold of the nas by having a drone climb up and and do some flight um that's going to vary depending on the operation but I think let's recognize it's it's pretty low uh I think the second piece that is most impactful is how Cooperative are

**[25:28]** their aircraft and I think um people always make a big deal like we can't see all the drones right where is everything and I was talking to some at the fa yesterday I said let's get helicopters more Cooperative let's get small airplanes more Cooperative right those are big planes often carrying um one if not multiple people bunch of gasoline on that thing right like that's what we want to be aware of and I think as drone Pilots if you tell us where you're at we will do everything you can within our power to stay out out of your way so I think it's how do we get a more Cooperative airspace and if you're not going to be cooperative you kind of fall down the totem pole a little bit in terms of right to that airspace appreciate that John um Reno the thing where we are seeing is where uh the the standard definition of the vo to directly monitor the aircraft or help in the navigation of the aircraft we're

**[26:29]** seeing uh under these waivers of type of operations where the we are stepping out more to uh uh help in the situational awareness of the airspace and move towards more of a supervisory oversight capacity uh while there's a lot of level of autonomy in the dock itself uh the the human intervention can still be used as an additional layer of safety especially for any unforeseen challenges or any complex situations while the Drone may be very quick to react and has a lot of algorithms to uh create those uh safety mitigations um having that human also make that decision uh does uh does definitely add that additional layer of safety and um you know it could be situation you know detected an aircraft and uh what are you doing is is rth the best situation do we jump in and get in the RC control do I look at the computer uh and control it through the Control software uh there's an emergency stop do I click that

**[27:31]** but will it go back to the set altitude so there there are different ways in which I think we're seeing that human intervention or that human layer uh come into place uh uh not just take on the traditional V Ro but in fact um add in an additional layer of safety that can mitigate certain risk that happens with these uh autonomous rights thanks Reno Kaki your thoughts on this one yeah Vos are interesting topic it's uh you know I feel like uh what is really good like we're seeing quite a lot of like B loss waivers now with the Vos coming out and then it's really encouraging kind of I feel like everyone kind of cracked that like uh formula that how to get a uh waiver uh what is kind of controversial is that it's kind of a set standard that okay vo or human can see like two miles 360 degree around you which it's even proven in the

**[28:37]** studies that it's not true right like it's like way less not way less but like less and that not you know humans get tired you know like they could be in the sun you know this and that so like Bas basic human factors right so uh yeah this uh performance of the vo is is kind of another uh level right so I think eventually uh I think we all agree that we should move to some kind of like technology solution right it could be a you know radar acoustic or view uh visual systems or something else right but like I think you cannot do you know 20 mile parcel delivery with the uh Vos uh but I think uh there's also a lot of conversations about the roles of the humans on the let's say rpic side which I think that and I think eventually we will move into and then we will see

**[29:40]** quite a lot of uh some waivers coming out the m to n basically or one to many waivers uh meaning One Pilot uh many uh vehicles and I think that's a correct way of going forward basically RPA I becomes more like a manager than a pilot I still believe that we will need this manager for quite some time uh even with this past I guess year and a half investment advancements in the AI and so on we've seen that you know sometimes this Advanced Technologies and autonomy uh autonomous systems they could get faulty and then kept faulty you know like they call it hallucination and so on so you know it could get really wrong so I think we will still need this human over the loop for quite some time and then once

**[30:41]** we have this uh confidence in this systems then maybe we could go to these like fully fully autonomous operations without maybe any human oversight all right so you heard it from kakei um you're not going to be losing your job jobs you're moving to middle management um so we actually got a question about this I want to throw it in now because it it pairs with my next question um so what would the question from from the audience is what would happen if the U if the FAA adopted Sora instead so let me reframe just a little bit um I mean that that is a very great question but like if if we compare our approach to BV loss and drone docks with International practices other caas what insights can we gain how can crossb learnings accelerate progress and safety in our operations Let's uh let's go backwards I'm gonna go right back to acki uh I think it would be easier for the industry uh you know because like

**[31:46]** we help customers in Europe in Canada in in South America right like and then people adopted already you know Sora methodology so we know how to do do that and then we uh and then even honestly credit to the FAA FAA was always saying like hey if you want to do a SORA you know you can submit your you know safety risk assessment with the with Sora and then they would translate that internally there was still uh would prefer their own uh process but I I think honestly like this unification and then you know everyone to be on the same page throughout the world as especially I think cuz the industry is becoming more International and Global so it's not that you know I'm doing my own stuff right like so um that would I think it would be easier for people like me who deals with the different Regulators because like everyone speaks the same language you know you can translate but you know in a

**[32:50]** Translate translation there are some issues sometimes right so uh yeah I I I think we could then focus on some other things if we all agree on this uh and then again Sora is not perfect for every use case right like you go to more complex very complex things yes you need something else but hey like I don't know infrastructure inspection in Europe and in us are they that different that you know we need like two different systems yeah I don't know so yeah I'm all for that all right all right uh Reno yeah like I said we're going to go backwards yeah so uh while the Sora I mean like Kaki said I mean it's it's it's been widely uh adopted in yasa we've seen in Canada we've seen other Regulators looking at it as a foundational risk-based approach uh for uh drone risk assessment um I think and uh

**[33:52]** while the fa still accepts it as one of the means to show a risk based approach um I think it would definitely benefit uh if the uh uh if fa could streamline to to what these uh other countries are adopting closer towards the Sora methodology and uh if you look at the case of Canada we don't see them completely following the Sora as it is we do see a Canadian version of the risk assessment right I mean you look at the basic principles of the air risk the ground risk uh make sure you have operational safety objectives and you meet of uh Matrix within that so uh I think uh looking towards that foundational principles uh of the Sora guidelines uh for a risk-based approach uh would be beneficial thanks for now John yeah I think uh you personally I think there's some issues with Sora

**[34:53]** um population density is one of my pet peeves because again it doesn't really tell you anything right like there could be 20,000 million billion people in a building really high population density zero risk right they're in a building to you know if I'm flying a drone near there so um I think some of those things need to be improved upon but um from a higher level you look at um a framework that says let's evaluate risk probability severity right not absolute worst thing that could possibly happen but what's the realistic aspect of this and um you know some of the arc stuff I think touched on this as well as you know just likelihood right uh people are outside 7% of the day so automatically the chance that a drone is going to fall out of the sky and hit you in the head goes down quite a bit right so we we start to get into pretty you know infinitesimal type numbers you think about okay

**[35:57]** what's the likelihood that some BB lost drone is going to kill you I'm gonna say pretty much zero right so if we can use something like Sora to address that and it's accepted I I think it's it's a win and I think most importantly if we can start to get International congruity around this the better because it's it's uh you know may not affect every operation but the more that the rules are the same the methodologies are the same it just is going to make implementation of this on a global nature I think that much more streamlined and and effective John thank you uh Jim final thought on this question well I I think a unified thought process you know everywhere a drone would be flown would be an amazing thing um obviously but you know from the highest level there to to think that regulatory bodies from all over the world could actually agree on something is um there's a lot more there's political ramifications and rabbit holes that we'd go down all day long um you know

**[37:00]** the Sor need needs work obviously um it would we would love to have a a base system um but like you know John mentioned you know high high population density inside of a skyscraper in New York is is one thing whereas a you know rural application in in in agricultural land and things like that it's another but you know there's it's so complex and so subjective um it's going to be very difficult we all have that goal um the the the closer we can get the better it's going to be um but the the the the Sora has to be redesigned in a way that it allows for a lot more subjectivity to be applied all right lightning round um because we're getting towards the end I want to be respectful of everyone's time and I have another panel to go to um what do you want this audience to take away about us drone BV loss operations specifically for drone docks so let's go back around the horn um let's go uh Reena just gonna pick a random 30 uh I think we've seen already waivers approved for drones in shielded airspace and

**[38:02]** shielded operations and now when you introduce a dock what you want to make sure is that uh what are the additional risks associated with the dock and you need to prove your safety case with how is that automation charging being done those maintenance checks those payload checks uh you know the the typical pre flight checks that you would do uh when a human is involved so um your duty would be to understand those differences of introducing a dock in the connectivity between the dock and the Drone and um understanding the risk involved with that autonomy level and uh prove that you have tactical and strategic mitigations to mitigate those risks involved with an operation involved uh with a drone and a dock thanks Reno John I I think the more that we can think more about the type of flight that's going to happen more than um you is it a dock or or what it is I think one of the um us touched on this

**[39:05]** earlier of a dock is that um we can do you know short flights right within a very small perimeter but far away from Humanity right and that's where you get you know huge huge um benefits and economic value of being able to deploy a go take some images capture some footage do an inspection um so I think there there's so much value there there's plenty of other complex um type of dock operations right if you're thinking all right let me put these around the city I can have Dron as the first responder right there's a lot more complexity when it comes to planning um safety and and where that operates so I think just recognizing that there's a wide breadth of dock operations but the the fundamental piece of of having that drone ready to take off in a bunch of strategic places from uh for whatever your organization needs is is so uh gamechanging and I

**[40:09]** think the um you know what we've seen with DJI and hopefully this just helps keep pushing the industry further is the technology is getting so good right the footprints getting smaller you don't need you know massive installation to to uh get it running so I think um a lower price point lower footprint it's going to make the I think the incentive and and really the demand to use a dock it's just gonna okaying a cocky like I said let's keep it 30 seconds we got to wrap okay uh yeah I think this year is going to be really interesting and really good overall for the industry uh coming part 108 coming out would be really really good for industry I guess what we have to set our expectations is that you know this rule won't uh solve all of your problems you still have to do your homework you know like it's not that all of a sudden we can fly whatever we want be

**[41:10]** we lost like we still as an industry industry have to do our homework but I think regular is going moving towards right direction so I'm actually really looking forward for that cocky Jim take us out um I think that it's safe to say the technolog is here um we've got it it's getting better every day but we have it and it's an exciting time um we need to be diligent to to stay on our Regulators whatever country we're in to make sure that they understand the technology and move forward with us and probably the most important piece of this is that we all have to to be diligent and when we're using this new technology use it correctly use it safely because it's going to take one small mistake or one one small incident that's a big mistake to set us all back two years right off the bat absolutely wow and look thank you all so much this has really been a great conversation around the mapping the US regulatory landscape um hope everyone in the audience uh just appreciated what what just went down this is so much expertise and

**[42:14]** and just insights that that were shared so thank you to each one of you panelists for being part of this uh NestGen 24 we're just going to keep going uh we're not done yet we're going to kick it over to the next session on drone autonomy the vision for 2030 so we'll see you over there